Shell blemishes normal?

[lbailey4487]

There's a large set of people who grow up to believe that humans are always more important than other animals, and a much, much smaller set that don't. But we all use each other, and we use the animals according to what we believe is most important, an example being teachers using animals to teach children about caring for different kinds of creatures. Even though of course, the animals often suffer for it. No PETA intended.

I hear you, and am actually one of the latter. I’ve been involved in dog and cat rescue for years and my children have been raised helping (willingly), too. I don’t think it has to be mutually exclusive. But sometimes children need exposure to a different way of thinking and, in these days, an example of thinking critically about things they see around them too become a part of that second group. I will never knowingly let an animal suffer to provide the lessons, but they are helpful. Our area is rampant with members of the first group of folks, to the point that many deny animals matter at all and they certainly don’t have feelings. It’s not always malicious, either, just the way people were raised. How do we begin to break the cycle unless we model and explicitly teach? And no, I’m not an “indoctrination” of kids. I am far from liberal. But in this digital age, kids’ abilities to think critically and look outside themselves and immediate gratification have been deeply impaired. Something has to change!

 

[lbailey4487]

I hear you, and am actually one of the latter. I’ve been involved in dog and cat rescue for years and my children have been raised helping (willingly), too. I don’t think it has to be mutually exclusive. But sometimes children need exposure to a different way of thinking and, in these days, an example of thinking critically about things they see around them too become a part of that second group. I will never knowingly let an animal suffer to provide the lessons, but they are helpful. Our area is rampant with members of the first group of folks, to the point that many deny animals matter at all and they certainly don’t have feelings. It’s not always malicious, either, just the way people were raised. How do we begin to break the cycle unless we model and explicitly teach? And no, I’m not an “indoctrination” of kids. I am far from liberal. But in this digital age, kids’ abilities to think critically and look outside themselves and immediate gratification have been deeply impaired. Something has to change!

And sometimes we all just need a little joy! That’s the main goal, hopefully for animal and people alike. Should that not work for either, I’m not above admitting defeat and making changes!

 

[COmtnLady]

But being in warm water under a basking light might be a good thing to prevent the drying effect of the light?

The surface of the shell is still closer to the lamp than the water. It will act like when you put people-food under a heat lamp, the underside of the mashed potatoes ends up moist and soft but the top gets dried out and the gravy skins over.

 

[wellington]

The surface of the shell is still closer to the lamp than the water. It will act like when you put people-food under a heat lamp, the underside of the mashed potatoes ends up moist and soft but the top gets dried out and the gravy skins over.

Perfect way of wording that. I can see exactly what you are talking about with that dryer top layer. This is why basking bulbs are not recommended for adult tortoises. I wonder though if a better way for young ones would be to have a basking area that is the same as recommended for adults? Heat panels top and bottom.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Perfect way of wording that. I can see exactly what you are talking about with that dryer top layer. This is why basking bulbs are not recommended for adult tortoises. I wonder though if a better way for young ones would be to have a basking area that is the same as recommended for adults? Heat panels top and bottom.

I think most folks use them when it comes to smaller species, but yeah heat panels are good, they can be more expensive but I get them being a good investment, my only worry with them is if one were to break, it’s harder to replace than a bulb, so I’d always have bulbs as a back up personally

 

[wellington]

I think most folks use them when it comes to smaller species, but yeah heat panels are good, they can be more expensive but I get them being a good investment, my only worry with them is if one were to break, it’s harder to replace than a bulb, so I’d always have bulbs as a back up personally

Most use the bulbs not the panels, unless that's what you meant. The panels are more expensive but last longer.
I have extra everything. The time you're going to need a back up is when it's the coldest and everything is closed. A back up on hand should be a must for anyone living in the colder areas.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Most use the bulbs not the panels, unless that's what you meant. The panels are more expensive but last longer.
I have extra everything. The time you're going to need a back up is when it's the coldest and everything is closed. A back up on hand should be a must for anyone living in the colder areas.

Yeah that’s what I meant, yeah couldn’t agree more! I’ll be upgrading squirt to panels at some point, just couldn’t stretch to them after the upgrade at risk of them going, but will definitely have the bulbs as just the back ups eventually

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Perfect way of wording that. I can see exactly what you are talking about with that dryer top layer. This is why basking bulbs are not recommended for adult tortoises. I wonder though if a better way for young ones would be to have a basking area that is the same as recommended for adults? Heat panels top and bottom.

Heat panels at the bottom is similar to what Len does (when power output is capped with a rheostat they will sustain perfect ground temperatures without risks of burns). Placing a panel over basking area is tricky because of the UVB tube. A deep heat projector paired with a LED bulb is a possible combination (at least in theory). Markw84 or jaizei, I guess can explain if it's a feasible alternative.

 

[wellington]

Heat panels at the bottom is similar to what Len does (when power output is capped with a rheostat they will sustain perfect ground temperatures without risks of burns). Placing a panel over basking area is tricky because of the UVB tube. A deep heat projector paired with a LED bulb is a possible combination (at least in theory). Markw84 or jaizei, I guess can explain if it's a feasible alternative.

No, the heat panel goes above the heat pad. Warming a tortoise only from the bottom is unnatural and will have them staying longer trying to get warm at the top.
But a heat panel on top for basking would work good. The uvb doesn't have to be right next to the basking. Mine has never been right next to the basking. That wasn't the way years ago. I actually prefer it in the middle between the basking end and the hide end which I usually have at opposite ends. The uvb is then being projected onto the tortoise most of the time it's out, like when they are outside in the sunlight, not just when basking, but when eating, drinking, roaming around. I'm not sure who or why the uvb next to the basking even started.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I'm not sure who or why the uvb next to the basking even started.

I think it started as more of a "common sense thing" than a scientifically backed up fact. Basking species will bask under/near their basking lamps, why not have the UVB next to it and on when they are basking? Two birds, one stone. Similar to the idea of combo bulbs, but a bit better.

Either way, I have mine overlapping his basking area, and the lamp goes on for 4 hours, when he is usually of and off basking in the mornings. Haven't thought about it being harmful.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

No, the heat panel goes above the heat pad. Warming a tortoise only from the bottom is unnatural and will have them staying longer trying to get warm at the top.
But a heat panel on top for basking would work good. The uvb doesn't have to be right next to the basking. Mine has never been right next to the basking. That wasn't the way years ago. I actually prefer it in the middle between the basking end and the hide end which I usually have at opposite ends. The uvb is then being projected onto the tortoise most of the time it's out, like when they are outside in the sunlight, not just when basking, but when eating, drinking, roaming around. I'm not sure who or why the uvb next to the basking even started.

I'm not suggesting to warm them only from the bottom.

To synthesize D3 both heat and UVB should be provided. However, if there is a gap in time between UVB exposure and heating up it still works (Markw84 posted somewhere how long produced previtamin D3 stays in the skin). When tortoise is only exposed to UVB and avoids basking zone - it doesn't work. http://www.uvguide.co.uk/vitdpathway.htm