The best would be to not have them as a school pet.
But yes I'm sure! They do get accustomed to routines.
Shell blemishes normal?
- Thread starter lbailey4487
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But yes I'm sure! They do get accustomed to routines.
Not likely a Russian will sit in water. Most Russian seem to not like being in water. Maybe a sunken tub filled with substrate and then made really wet. That would work for most.
No, not "normal" but usual on wild caught Russian tortoises. Russian tortoises have a hard life where they come from in nature. You will never find a wild caught Russian tortoise with a perfect shell.
lbailey4487
Active Member
One of the reasons I felt pretty comfortable leaving him over weekends was that our building’s temperature and humidity are closely monitored. We had a mild disaster when the HVAC system went down in July when no one was in the building. Had to have a whole mold remediation team, throw out most everything in the building, and start in-person school two months late (that was a fun year…
). So temperatures aren’t allowed to vary beyond 5 degrees up or down from 68. But I do have a large room and it often feels cooler than other classrooms I go into. For us premenopausal women that work in it, it’s great! I’m guessing not as much for Zig. I actually went with this theory Thursday, adjusting our room temp to 72 and moving his CHE to see if it makes a difference. We (people) could tell a difference. I may add a second CHE. If that doesn’t work, I will have to try the toppers. The confusing part is that when we are not there, he’s got dig holes a little of everywhere. Temperatures were 101 under the light and 72 near his middle hide when I checked Friday . I need a new temperature gauge for the far end. It’s likely closer to 68. I have a temperature gun, so going to verify with it.lbailey4487
Active Member
I had actually wondered if a tarp on the cool end at night would help. Might try it to see if it helps before building toppers. One of the reasons I chose a Russian was they seemed to be able to tolerate room temperatures well so I could have an open top for my kids (and me
) to observe him better.We actually have already created tortoise books of facts, food, anatomy, etc. I hadn’t thought of working on a book WITH the kids! I especially like having them illustrate it! Thanks for the idea! While I’d love to continue the antics, I don’t think our school curriculum folks would be as thrilled. However, we do “turtle talk” often at the beginning of our sessions (I am a speech therapist ) and add new facts, etc. I do have two boys who are exceptionally interested. I have decided to add a lesson on how to deal with native species and what to do when we encounter our state’s native reptiles and WHY to curb their interest in taking our eastern box turtles home…. I am a firm believer in the minds and hearts of children! Start them well and let them shine! Oh, and his name is Ziggy!
lbailey4487
Active Member
The skin on his head and neck was shedding a good bit when I got him. That has finished for the most part but he still has some shedding on his legs now. I did just happen to think of one additional factor that may be influencing his adjustment. I got him from coastal North Carolina. The humidity of the air there is likely higher than our mountain air. We are at about 2000 feet above sea level here, whereas the Wilmington area is flat. Would that make a difference?Also maybe more 3-4months lol, the dryness could definitely progress if he keeps staying under the lamp, just when zooming in I could see those areas already appearing to be flaking, I guess it is possible the lamp drying it could’ve flaked them further, but I can’t say for sure that’s the case either as he’s not been with you long
lbailey4487
Active Member
Actually, one of the reasons I decided to leave him at school
Is because in our particular building, the temperature has to be kept pretty steady. See my other replies for explanation. I’m more inclined to think it’s drafty. However, he will need to be brought home for holiday breaks and over the summer (which will be in an outdoor area I’m already starting).
lbailey4487
Active Member
I’m curious—if all environmental conditions can be met, why is it still not good to have him in a classroom?
Because of the reasons of stress with all the kids, usually the needs aren't met as far as enclosure size or diet. 99.9% of turtles or tortoises in class rooms are not ever housed or fed properly.
Littleredfootbigredheart
Well-Known Member
If there’s been a sudden difference in humidity for him that could definitely be a contributing factor, I think the tarp might be a good first port of call, hopefully it’ll help enough without the need for a topper
This one is housed correctly though and I believe the kids aren’t allowed to handle unless it’s weighing/ soak time? I understand what you mean about routine, I just worry he’ll stress, on a few other threads I’ve seen so many of the well known folks advise keeping tortoise in one place instead of bath n forth outside, not saying it’s not ok by any means, I’ve just seen a lot of people say it’s more ideal letting them get used to one territory, then going from there
This is the reason I don't like the idea of a tortoise for a classroom pet:
I have about 30 three toed box turtles in a large, well planted area outside. Every time I go into that yard this one large female would come running over to me with her neck stretched out, "Mama, What did you bring me?" She was very tame and I just loved her.
So this teacher of a (I don't remember) second or third grade class of youngsters came to adopt a box turtle for her classroom. I thought my 'tame' female would be a good match for youngsters, so she went home with my favorite box turtle.
About two weeks later the teacher contacted me wanting to bring the turtle back. She said all it does is hide, all closed up in it's shell.
It took about two weeks in my reptile room for the turtle to start opening up and looking out, but still not bringing out her head or legs. After another week of quiet solitude she finally started coming out.
The only thing I could figure was when the teacher isn't looking the kids poked and prodded that poor turtle.
I learned my lesson at the turtle's expense. I never adopted out classroom pets ever again.
If you don't have to keep transferring them, that's a good thing but where you live, if you had a tortoise and a yard for it and where I live it's common when temps are good during the day but not warm enough at night. Or one day good, next day not so much. The tortoise in this thread being left in a cold school over night or weekends is not ideal to me. The bit of stress in the beginning is minimal. A hatchling is a bit different an adult can handle it much better. Like I said, three tortoises, two different species, been doing the in and out spring and fall for years!If there’s been a sudden difference in humidity for him that could definitely be a contributing factor, I think the tarp might be a good first port of call, hopefully it’ll help enough without the need for a topper
This one is housed correctly though and I believe the kids aren’t allowed to handle unless it’s weighing/ soak time? I understand what you mean about routine, I just worry he’ll stress, on a few other threads I’ve seen so many of the well known folks advise keeping tortoise in one place instead of bath n forth outside, not saying it’s not ok by any means, I’ve just seen a lot of people say it’s more ideal letting them get used to one territory, then going from there
I think if you up the lighting so it's bright, be sure his level of day temp is 80 with the 95-100 basking area and his night temps stays 68-70 he will be much better.
Keep in mind though, this time of year, most would be brumating.i don't brumate mine either, but he still slows some, and eats less. As long as the temps and brighter lighting is right, they should wake every day, eat bask but will sleep more.
The warmer temp will help him from basking so much too.
Keep in mind though, this time of year, most would be brumating.i don't brumate mine either, but he still slows some, and eats less. As long as the temps and brighter lighting is right, they should wake every day, eat bask but will sleep more.
The warmer temp will help him from basking so much too.
While thinking about this post, another reason I don't like them in class rooms. A kid, while you weren't looking or out of the room could have dropped the tortoise or drop something on it?
Maybe a janitor?
Cracks wouldn't just appear that quickly unless it was dropped or something dropped on it, or like I said in the beginning, possibly squeezing it's self between two hard things.
lbailey4487
Active Member
Fortunately, I have very respective kids! None have tried to overstep boundaries, and should they start, Ziggy will come home with me! All I’ve had so far are positives—the kids respond to “use your turtle voice” (quieter so it won’t scare Zig) better than “inside voice”. All are interested in learning more about torts and our native reptiles and are also showing more understanding of looking at the world from a different perspective. The last bit was a surprise to me—a lot of the kids I work with have difficulty interacting with others, but have been able to infer tortoise perspective better than other people’s perspectives. It’s a good step! We are also doing our best to make his housing meet all his needs and the kids are helping me grow and forage food. It’s so far, so good at the moment!
lbailey4487
Active Member
Yeah, Zig doesn’t appear to ever use his water dish. He has stopped throwing a fit when soaked and sometimes stretches out like he’s enjoying it, but I’ve seen zero evidence that he seeks it out. I put a rock under his light, too, but he shows no interest in it, either.
lbailey4487
Active Member
My kids are never allowed to handle Ziggy.If there’s been a sudden difference in humidity for him that could definitely be a contributing factor, I think the tarp might be a good first port of call, hopefully it’ll help enough without the need for a topper
This one is housed correctly though and I believe the kids aren’t allowed to handle unless it’s weighing/ soak time? I understand what you mean about routine, I just worry he’ll stress, on a few other threads I’ve seen so many of the well known folks advise keeping tortoise in one place instead of bath n forth outside, not saying it’s not ok by any means, I’ve just seen a lot of people say it’s more ideal letting them get used to one territory, then going from there
yeah, only two of my boys had been allowed to pet his shell briefly before I returned him to his home after a bath until yesterday, when three of my girls got to do so after helping me find him in his habitat and forage food for him. They know they are not allowed to even be around his box to look without me. None are allowed to hold him.If there’s been a sudden difference in humidity for him that could definitely be a contributing factor, I think the tarp might be a good first port of call, hopefully it’ll help enough without the need for a topper
This one is housed correctly though and I believe the kids aren’t allowed to handle unless it’s weighing/ soak time? I understand what you mean about routine, I just worry he’ll stress, on a few other threads I’ve seen so many of the well known folks advise keeping tortoise in one place instead of bath n forth outside, not saying it’s not ok by any means, I’ve just seen a lot of people say it’s more ideal letting them get used to one territory, then going from there
lbailey4487
Active Member
Understand completely. Kids are curious. That makes sense. My room is a bit different. I only have 1-5 kids at a time and they aren’t left alone in the room at any time. Last year, we had a teacher who let her own kids roam the building while waiting for her to finish whatever she was doing. The two were wild—a pre-K boy and 2nd grade boy. Once they found out my room contained games, they snuck in as often as they could and made messes, lost materials, etc. I couldn’t figure out what was going on until our custodian told on them. It had crossed my mind that something similar would be possible with my tortoise this year. Fortunately, none of our teachers have young children they have at school this year. The teacher from last year took a job in another county. I have still put the custodial staff on turtle guard!
lbailey4487
Active Member
The janitor would be the only one I could consider so far. My kids all have mild-to-moderate special needs so can’t be left alone in the room. The tortoise box is also behind me and my table/supplies in a corner, so not easy to access even when my attention is elsewhere in the room. I also usually have 1-3 kids at a time, no more than 5, so easy to keep track of. The lids to the box aren’t exactly difficult to get off but would be difficult for my small kids to manage without detection in a small amount of time. My custodian has seemed very curious about him but I don’t think would be messing around with him without me, especially since I talked to him about making sure no one is in my room after hours. I have noticed a place in his shell further forward that looks like it could potentially be another similar crack in development. Same area, just drier looking. I don’t think anyone has had him out, but should I get strong suspicion that someone does, he will be brought home.
There's a large set of people who grow up to believe that humans are always more important than other animals, and a much, much smaller set that don't. But we all use each other, and we use the animals according to what we believe is most important, an example being teachers using animals to teach children about caring for different kinds of creatures. Even though of course, the animals often suffer for it. No PETA intended.
