Shell question

[Mrsgnt]

Been reading about pyramidding and stuff, so naturally I've been studying Babys shell quite closely too. Due to his 'tough upbringing' he is a quite lumpy and bumpy but not too bad considering.
I have noticed though that the scute above his butt is really raised compared to the others. It almost looks like I could pick it off with my fingernail (don't worry I wont!) so now I'm scared. Is it just what happens with bad growth? Or do you think it could be signs of early shell rot?
I've taken a photograph of it but I haven't got a very good camera unfortunately (that and I couldn't get him to stay still for like 3 seconds!)

The vet hasn't mentioned it before, but I didn't point it out either I probably should have. Should I take him again or is it normal?


PS: I've just looked at the pics again myself and they're terrible.. sorry I am not a very good photographer! My other half however, is a very good photographer and I intend to ask him to take some 'tortoise portraits' for me.. problem is he refuses to use digital, so we have to wait weeks for him to use a film up! Apprently "you can't compromise the quality of a proper film.. I'm a photographer not a photoshop expert blah blah blah"

 

[Greg T]

I'm not an expert on this but it just looks like that scute is raised like the rest with some minor pyramiding. It does not look like shell rot to me. With some proper care, it should smooth out some as it grows older.

 

[Neal]

That does look a little odd. Do you know the details of how he was raised? It almost looks like he was starting to pyramid quite severely, but it stopped and all the new growth grew in smoother. I would be willing to bet there was some type of significant environmental/husbandry change when the tortoise was very young.

Could you take a profile shot of the tortoise? Honestly from the pictures here, he looks great! Definitely has a nice shell pattern and color.

 

[Mrsgnt]

Thanks! He has definitely lightened up in colour since I've had him. Whether that's something to do with genes or environment I'm not sure but that's another debate..

I know a little about his upbringing, he was captive bred in the UK and his parents were too - I haven't seen the parents myself so I can't comment on their colouring. I'll ask my Father-in-law when I see him.

So my Father-in-law decided to purchase him for his (then) 10 year old daughter as a Christmas present. He was supposedly 3 years old but looking back he was probably a lot younger, less than a year I'd say. He was kept in a 3ft viv with a UV strip light and a ceramic heater and fed mixed lettuce. As expected, she quickly lost interest and he was just kind of left in his tank in the corner, nobody ever remembered to switch his light on let alone feed him! So he lived like that, with no food, no natural sunlight, no UVB and no water for about 5 years.

My OH and I moved back to his 'family home' in mid 2010 on the understanding that it would eventually be our home as everybody else was moving out. While we were all living there together, I felt it wasn't my place to comment on the bad keeping of the tortoise, but when my bf's sister wasn't around we used to sneak him out and bathe him and feed him kale and stuff (I didn't know about diet and stuff then because well... it wasn't my pet in those days!) So towards the middle of 2011 everybody else moved out but the poor tortoise got left behind, nobody wanted to claim him. So I decided to start doing my research (bearing in mind the tortoise is about 8 - 9 years old by this point if we're going off what the breeder said) and I was absolutely horrified. I had no idea how bad it actually was, the whole set-up was just wrong. I feel sooo so so bad now that I didn't act sooner, but lets just I've learned my lesson!

My OH quickly set to work building an indoor enclosure for him 10ft x 6ft, and he now has a basking spot of 36°C, his warm side is 30°C, his cool side is 25 - 28°C and his night time temp is 20°C but if it drops below 17°C his ceramic heater kicks in and that sits at about 22°C. Unfortunately we have had a really wet summer this year, so his outdoor time has been quite limited, but at every chance we let him graze outdoors even if it's just a half hour break between the rain showers. I intend to have the shed insulated for him eventually but as he's only 6.5inches (plastron) and 1lb 13oz we don't need to rush. He's been in his new enclosure since January 2012 but I only started recording his weight etc in August. I dread to think what it was when I first got him poor thing. He is fed mixed grasses and weeds now (which I grow in seed trays) and I supplement with a calcium powder. He is bathed at least every other day. I am an accidental tortoise owner - but I am SOOOOOOO glad because they're fascinating. We haven't watched TV since January!

So really his only significant change has been quite recent, I just wish I'd weighed him back then. A couple more questions though, we know that he is at least 6 because I've known him for 6 years, but he is supposed to be 9. If indeed he is 9, will he stop growing soon and be small forever? I don't mind having a small tortoise as long as it doesn't affect his health.

Also, I caught him eating an earthworm out the garden the other day, will it harm him? He seems fine (he looked like he enjoyed it the cheeky monkey) but I thought they couldn't have protein? I'm not sure how much protein is in a worm though.

Oh by the way I'm saying 'he' but I don't know, I posted here before and you guys thought female but you wouldn't say for sure until he was a bit bigger.

Thanks again

OH! I've attached a picture but it's the only one I have on my work PC, I'll get a decent one tonight when I get home!

 

[Yvonne G]

That story just goes to prove that tortoises are survivors. I'm so glad that he has touched your heart and you've taken over the care of him. He has really lucked out.

 

[Neal]

Well he's a handsome little guy and that's quite a life he's been through already. I'm surprised he looks as good as he does after going through all that. The pyramiding is not bad, and he even has some new growth coming in.

 

[Mrsgnt]

You're right he is a survivor, I have no idea how he managed to live like that for so long. They're amazing creatures. I personally think that he looks as smooth as he does because rather than growing badly, he hasn't grown at all. But I'm not a scientist so I don't know about stuff like that. If the humidity thing is correct then I imagine the humidity in the UK is enough to prevent pyramidding to some extent. Like today for example our highs are expected to be only 19°C but the humidity is 87%.

My story does support your theory Neal that the leopards that make it to the UK are less prone to pyramidding. That's fantastic news about his new growth I'm so pleased, stupid question but when people say 'growth lines' where am I looking? Sort of inbetween?

I'm going to pop him on the scales again tomorrow to see if the earthworm has made a difference!

 

[Neal]

My story does support your theory Neal that the leopards that make it to the UK are less prone to pyramidding. That's fantastic news about his new growth I'm so pleased, stupid question but when people say 'growth lines' where am I looking? Sort of inbetween?

No it doesn't. But given the tortoises history, I would call this one an exception to my theory. And the pyramiding is not bad at all compared to a lot of others we see.

The growth lines I see are in between the marginal and pleural scutes. The new growth appears to be lighter, but it will darken over time.

 

[Mrsgnt]

Brilliant, thank you.

Okay well I guess he is just a lucky fellow like Yvonne says. Really lucky!

If his previous owner asks for him back one day (I really hope not!) then I'm going to make her sit an exam. Or report her to the RSPCA.

Thanks again folks.