Sick hatchling or am I being dramatic?

[Christina673]

Not sure if this is “hatchling failure syndrome” that I’ve read about on this forum or if it’s a RI or if I’m just being paranoid but I thought I’d ask here..

Today, I came home and noticed my hatchling Zip had some snot in his left nose and didn’t really eat his greens. Normally, a good majority of his food is gone by the time I get back home. He is eating oat grass, dandelion greens, and some fescue grass as well as a few pieces of spring mix (no lettuce)

I took him out to soak him and he had a massive poop, he normally poops each day during his soak so that is still his normal, but he seemed very lethargic in his soak today and went back to his humid hide as soon as his soak was over and went back to sleep.

I did find out that his breeder starts them dry and they keep them on some type of pellets (I found this out from the person who gifted him to me)

Anything I should do?

 

[wellington]

Give us a total run down of temps, humidity, open top enclosure or closed.
Type of bulbs being used?
Food needs bigger variety.
Picture of enclosure would help too
Sometime getting the enclosure around 85 day and night for a few days will help get what ever might be starting cleared up

 

[Christina673]

C

Give us a total run down of temps, humidity, open top enclosure or closed.
Type of bulbs being used?
Food needs bigger variety.
Picture of enclosure would help too
Sometime getting the enclosure around 85 day and night for a few days will help get what ever might be starting cleared up

Cool Side 80-85, basking light 105, humidity is 79-82. The night temp does seem to stay around 80 at night. In the picture it shows 84 because I turned back on the lights for a few minutes before I took pictures.

Enclosure is glass terrarium with a makeshift top out of tinfoil until the greenhouse comes in. When that stuff comes in then I’ll be doing a better job at husbandry.

Lighting is a 50w CHL, basking is a flukers basking bulb 60w and a repti sun T5 HO.

He does eat hibiscus leaves and flowers as well as a few pellets of mazuri as well each week. The fescue grasses are what I cut in my yard and is a mixture of fescue grass and weeds that tortoise table says is good for tortoises. I just didn’t think to put that at first. He also has a bottle bone that he eats on as well.

He also goes outside in the daylight for 45 min to 1 hr a day in the morning with the exception of today and yesterday because I had to go to the city for the day. And I soak for about an hour each day no matter what in lukewarm water. I watch him during his soaks to make sure he doesn’t accidentally get water up his nose or flip over or anything like that. And he drinks water in his enclosure everyday as well as drinking the water he is soaking in too.

I have had him for a week and a half today and am just now finding things out about the breeder that makes me wonder how he was started.

I also added a picture of his weight yesterday. But didn’t know to weigh him when I got him.

 

[Christina673]

I should also say that while I was outside feeding animals and after his soak he did seem to eat some of his food tonight after this original post but it was no where near how much he has been eating each day before today besides the first day I got him.

 

[wellington]

The basking is too high. 95-100 not 105.
Spot light needs to be changed to a flood bulb.
50 watt CHL? Not sure what that is, but if it's a coil bulb CFL they should not be used unless it is high enough and used horizontal.
The round disc you are using for temp and humidity are not accurate and should be changed out for digital and placed at tortoise height. The top will always be warmer than tortoise height.
I would leave temps at 85 all over except basking area should be 95-100 and when you see him acting more normal you can turn the heat down to 80 day and night never lower.
Suak daily for 1/2 hour in warm water.
He will need a bigger enclosure soon, unless that's bigger than it looks.

 

[Christina673]

The basking is too high. 95-100 not 105.
Spot light needs to be changed to a flood bulb.
50 watt CHL? Not sure what that is, but if it's a coil bulb CFL they should not be used unless it is high enough and used horizontal.
The round disc you are using for temp and humidity are not accurate and should be changed out for digital and placed at tortoise height. The top will always be warmer than tortoise height.
I would leave temps at 85 all over except basking area should be 95-100 and when you see him acting more normal you can turn the heat down to 80 day and night never lower.
Suak daily for 1/2 hour in warm water.
He will need a bigger enclosure soon, unless that's bigger than it looks.

Ceramic heat light. The round disk thing that is up high I don’t use. It came with the setup when it was given to me and already on the glass. I have a digital to the left of the human hide it may not have shown up in the picture. And that is what I look at when I check heat and humidity levels.

I thought the flukers was okay because it isn’t a spot light? Maybe I read that wrong somewhere though? I have pictures of the the lights that are currently in there.

And yes, I’m working on getting him a bigger enclosure. I’m actually working on it this weekend and hopefully I’ll have it finished by then. Fingers crossed.

That’s good to know about the basking spot. Maybe that is why he wasn’t out much. I did buy a dimmer/temp control to make sure temps don’t fluctuate as much too.

 

[Tom]

C

Cool Side 80-85, basking light 105, humidity is 79-82. The night temp does seem to stay around 80 at night. In the picture it shows 84 because I turned back on the lights for a few minutes before I took pictures.

Enclosure is glass terrarium with a makeshift top out of tinfoil until the greenhouse comes in. When that stuff comes in then I’ll be doing a better job at husbandry.

Lighting is a 50w CHL, basking is a flukers basking bulb 60w and a repti sun T5 HO.

He does eat hibiscus leaves and flowers as well as a few pellets of mazuri as well each week. The fescue grasses are what I cut in my yard and is a mixture of fescue grass and weeds that tortoise table says is good for tortoises. I just didn’t think to put that at first. He also has a bottle bone that he eats on as well.

He also goes outside in the daylight for 45 min to 1 hr a day in the morning with the exception of today and yesterday because I had to go to the city for the day. And I soak for about an hour each day no matter what in lukewarm water. I watch him during his soaks to make sure he doesn’t accidentally get water up his nose or flip over or anything like that. And he drinks water in his enclosure everyday as well as drinking the water he is soaking in too.

I have had him for a week and a half today and am just now finding things out about the breeder that makes me wonder how he was started.

I also added a picture of his weight yesterday. But didn’t know to weigh him when I got him.

If your thermometer/hygrometer is down on the substrate, you are going to get inaccurate ambient humidity readings. Keep it a few inches off the damp substrate.

Are you using a thermostat to control the CHE (Ceramic heating element)? It's not a light or a lamp, as it gives off no light.

"Around 80" at night might not be warm enough. It needs to be at least 80, and if you are seeing snot, I'd put it at 85-86 24/7 for at least two weeks after symptoms disappear, and then set it back down to 82ish.

Unless the fescue is freshly sprouted from seed and very soft, it's not appropriate to feed to a baby like that. Grass is for older sulcatas. Babies can eat soft tender freshly sprouted grass, but not mature regularly mowed yard grass. Its too tough and too stiff.

The soaking water needs to be 90-95, not luke warm. Cold water can make them sick. Hot water can cook them. It needs to be checked and in a safe range. If you are soaking for an hour, which is great, what steps are you taking to keep the water warm for the entire soaking time?

 

[wellington]

Okay, CHE is used for the ceramic heat emitter, so that is fine. The fluker bulb may be fine, it is an incandescent, they just don't list if it's a spot bulb. As long as it's not a spot bulb it should be fine.

 

[Christina673]

If your thermometer/hygrometer is down on the substrate, you are going to get inaccurate ambient humidity readings. Keep it a few inches off the damp substrate.

Are you using a thermostat to control the CHE (Ceramic heating element)? It's not a light or a lamp, as it gives off no light.

"Around 80" at night might not be warm enough. It needs to be at least 80, and if you are seeing snot, I'd put it at 85-86 24/7 for at least two weeks after symptoms disappear, and then set it back down to 82ish.

Unless the fescue is freshly sprouted from seed and very soft, it's not appropriate to feed to a baby like that. Grass is for older sulcatas. Babies can eat soft tender freshly sprouted grass, but not mature regularly mowed yard grass. Its too tough and too stiff.

The soaking water needs to be 90-95, not luke warm. Cold water can make them sick. Hot water can cook them. It needs to be checked and in a safe range. If you are soaking for an hour, which is great, what steps are you taking to keep the water warm for the entire soaking time?

Okay, that is good to know for the thermometer I’ll find something to raise it off the substrate so I can have more accurate readings.

The CHE is now on a dimmer, I had to order one so I was using it at night to ensure it stayed warm enough in the tank. But now that it came in I plugged it in today when it came in and set the temp to 85, but I can set it to 86 just to be safe.

Okay, so I can stick with the fresh sprouted oat grass, dandelion greens, hibiscus and spring mix for now? Oh and I add cactus to his food too, Everything I can get outside is going to be way too tough for him to eat then given how our drought hits in July and goes until march.

For the water soaking, I have a digital thermometer that I put in the water. When it dips below 89 I change the water out, or when he poops in the water. Which is usually 20-25 min into his soak. If he poops, I don’t care if it’s still the same temp, I dump and pour fresh water in. And I guess I should have worded the lukewarm statement better. For me, it feels lukewarm, but the thermometer says usually 91-92 but I can raise it up to 95. If I’m soaking him too long I can absolutely go back to 30 min a day just once I realized that he was probably not started in the best way I wanted to ensure he stayed hydrated

All in all, I’m spending about two hours a day right next to him either while he soaks or spends time in the daylight. If I need to pull it back because it’s too much I’m happy to. Whatever I need to do to make sure this baby has what he needs to thrive. So I’m open to any and all suggestions or criticisms that I need to ensure that happens.

 

[zolasmum]

Zip is a lovely little chap, and I'm sure he appreciates everything you are doing to improve his life.It will take a little while to get his set-up perfect for him, but I hope you will keep us up to date with his progress -photos are always much appreciated !
Best wishes from Angie

 

[Tom]

The CHE is now on a dimmer...

You want the CHE on a thermostat, not a dimmer. A dimmer, aka: rheostat, regulates the wattage going to the ceramic heat emitter. As room temperature changes, this can make it too hot or too cold. You need a thermostat to hold a more steady temperature in the enclosure regardless of room temperature.

 

[Christina673]

You want the CHE on a thermostat, not a dimmer. A dimmer, aka: rheostat, regulates the wattage going to the ceramic heat emitter. As room temperature changes, this can make it too hot or too cold. You need a thermostat to hold a more steady temperature in the enclosure regardless of room temperature.

I’m sorry I think I might of misspoke. That’s what I get for multitasking. I saw dimmer on the box and I went with it. I have a picture of what I have on the CHE. Is this correct or should I get something else?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I’m sorry I think I might of misspoke. That’s what I get for multitasking. I saw dimmer on the box and I went with it. I have a picture of what I have on the CHE. Is this correct or should I get something else?

This one looks fine as long as you don't overload it. 200W is not a large capacity, so use it only with a single CHE, no more than 100W. Cheaper, simpler on/off thermostats also work fine with CHEs.

 

[Christina673]

This one looks fine as long as you don't overload it. 200W is not a large capacity, so use it only with a single CHE, no more than 100W. Cheaper, simpler on/off thermostats also work fine with CHEs.

Ok perfect! I was only going to use the thermostat with the CHE so that it wouldn’t get too hot or cold in there for him. Thank you!

 

[Christina673]

Zip is a lovely little chap, and I'm sure he appreciates everything you are doing to improve his life.It will take a little while to get his set-up perfect for him, but I hope you will keep us up to date with his progress -photos are always much appreciated !
Best wishes from Angie

Thank you so much! And yes, absolutely! Once I get his new enclosure up and ready I’ll post again too and definitely keep posting photos. He is very loved and I’m fascinated by the fact that he seems to recognize my voice after less than two weeks.

 

[Tom]

I’m sorry I think I might of misspoke. That’s what I get for multitasking. I saw dimmer on the box and I went with it. I have a picture of what I have on the CHE. Is this correct or should I get something else?

That one can work for the time being but as Alex noted, it's too small. You need one rated to 1000 watts or more, and that is how most of them are anyway. You might not be using anywhere close to that wattage, but better to go way overboard with the wattage rating. I don't know what type of RHP you ended up with, but the Tractor Supply one has a 50 or a 200 watt setting, and your Kane mat is 80 watts. The VE RHP is around 80 watts. Its safer to have a much higher wattage rating than what you need.

Here is one for $17:

Amazon.com

Here is one for $30 that lets you set a different temp for day or night if you want to. I use a bunch of these:

Amazon.com

 

[zolasmum]

Thank you so much! And yes, absolutely! Once I get his new enclosure up and ready I’ll post again too and definitely keep posting photos. He is very loved and I’m fascinated by the fact that he seems to recognize my voice after less than two weeks.

We first met our Hermanns baby, Zola, 24 years ago, and we still find him more and more interesting all the time - and he is loved more and more too. I think Zip may add a new dimension to your life too.
Angie

 

[carenhill5]

C

Cool Side 80-85, basking light 105, humidity is 79-82. The night temp does seem to stay around 80 at night. In the picture it shows 84 because I turned back on the lights for a few minutes before I took pictures.

Enclosure is glass terrarium with a makeshift top out of tinfoil until the greenhouse comes in. When that stuff comes in then I’ll be doing a better job at husbandry.

Lighting is a 50w CHL, basking is a flukers basking bulb 60w and a repti sun T5 HO.

He does eat hibiscus leaves and flowers as well as a few pellets of mazuri as well each week. The fescue grasses are what I cut in my yard and is a mixture of fescue grass and weeds that tortoise table says is good for tortoises. I just didn’t think to put that at first. He also has a bottle bone that he eats on as well.

He also goes outside in the daylight for 45 min to 1 hr a day in the morning with the exception of today and yesterday because I had to go to the city for the day. And I soak for about an hour each day no matter what in lukewarm water. I watch him during his soaks to make sure he doesn’t accidentally get water up his nose or flip over or anything like that. And he drinks water in his enclosure everyday as well as drinking the water he is soaking in too.

I have had him for a week and a half today and am just now finding things out about the breeder that makes me wonder how he was started.

I also added a picture of his weight yesterday. But didn’t know to weigh him when I got him.

Glass terrariums are the worst thing for any type of tortoise! They need an enclosure that they cannot see out of, otherwise they are constantly trying to get out. Please change their home and pass the word. This is cruel!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Glass terrariums are the worst thing for any type of tortoise! They need an enclosure that they cannot see out of, otherwise they are constantly trying to get out. Please change their home and pass the word. This is cruel!

Hi!
I would agree and disagree on that. Off-the-shelf glass terrariums are too small in most cases and sometimes it's difficult to keep proper humidity and temperatures. In that case, tortoise will try to escape in search of more favourable conditions.

Glass itself is not an issue: most tortoises understand that it's the barrier and don't bash in the windows/glass doors when enclosure is set up correctly.

 

[Christina673]

That one can work for the time being but as Alex noted, it's too small. You need one rated to 1000 watts or more, and that is how most of them are anyway. You might not be using anywhere close to that wattage, but better to go way overboard with the wattage rating. I don't know what type of RHP you ended up with, but the Tractor Supply one has a 50 or a 200 watt setting, and your Kane mat is 80 watts. The VE RHP is around 80 watts. Its safer to have a much higher wattage rating than what you need.

Here is one for $17:

Amazon.com

Here is one for $30 that lets you set a different temp for day or night if you want to. I use a bunch of these:

Amazon.com

Thank you Tom, I’ll look into both of those and choose one that seems to work best with my new setup.

On the bright side, this little guy seems to of only had snot out of his nose for a day or two. I’ve been keeping his new home at 85 day and night. Still working on getting the humidity high enough with the new greenhouse enclosure. But maybe it takes a few days to get it high enough? I’m not sure this is only day two with the new habitat.