How does tortoise breath and not suffocate when door is shut at night to keep predators out?I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll need something else for the dead of winter. Or you can move South!
The top of this box is half a sheet of plywood, insulated and sealed, so 4x4 feet. The inside of the box ends up being around 40x40 inches when its all done. I use an 18x28 inch Kane heat mat on the floor, and a 21" radiant heat panel on the top. Both are controlled by the same thermostat: https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller
I lower the RHP so that it is within 6-8 inches of the tortoises carapace that lives in the box. I like to screw a plastic shoe box to the back of the box to contain all the extra wires and thermostat. Weather strip seals the top where the hinged lid meets it, and I use plastic freezer stripping across the door to hold in heat when the door is open. The door drops down like a drawbridge and makes a ramp fro the tortoise to get in and out easier. I latch the door shut every night and open the door every morning.
In summer our daytime highs are usually right around 100, with night time lows around 65. I unplug the boxes during this time and temps stay between 70 and 90 in them. In Fall, we have warm sunny days usually into December, so I set the thermostat to 80. As soon as the weather turns cold in winter, I bump the thermostat up to 86, so they always have an area to get warmer in on a cold rainy day here. Spring time brings back warmer sunny days, so I lower the box temp back down to 80. This routine works great for any tropical species like Stars, radiata, sulcatas and leopards.
Here is the box during construction. I frame the plywood walls with 2x4s and use 1.5" rigid foam as insulation. Then I seal it with silicone caulking and cover the walls with plywood inside.
View attachment 291639
Here is all the electrical stuff going into it:
View attachment 291640
View attachment 291641
Here I want to show the weather stripping in place, and the drip loop. The drip loop is simply draping the cord down a bit so that when it rains, the water drips down the cord to the ground instead of following the cord downhill right into the box.
View attachment 291642
Ready to keep a tortoise warm and safe at night:
View attachment 291643
This is a great way to house a large leopard or sulcata in a relatively warm climate. We get cold winter nights in the 20s and this box, built and heated this way, keeps them in the 80s. Because my climate is so dry, I usually add a 5 gallon bucket or some tubs of water to generate some ambient humidity inside the box. People in the South East US wouldn't need to do this.
Questions and conversation are welcome!
For larger tortoises, multiple tortoises, and a different heating strategy, see this thread:
Double Door Night Box
As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...tortoiseforum.org
Single Tortoise Night Box
- Thread starter Tom
- Start date
These boxes are not air tight. There are gaps around the entire door. Also, 95% of the oxygen we take in goes to maintaining body heat. Tortoises and other ectotherms need significantly less air than we do.
Its a fair question, and I can also tell you that in 20+ years of using 12 or more of these boxes every single day for dozens of tortoises of many species, not one of them has ever suffocated.
So there is your theoretical explanation AND decades of real world evidence to back it up.jaraquistain
New Member
Practically speaking, how long (or I guess what size?) should we expect a 4x4' box to work for a sulcata tortoise before it outgrows it? Mine is a bit over 2 years old (about 12" long) and I'm getting ready to transition it outside full time. It'll have a large outdoor area to explore throughout the day and I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area so it'll only use the box at night or to hang out during cold days. I'd really like to not have to jump straight to 4x8' becuase I suspect it would be overkill for a while, but I also don't want to have to do a complete rebuild a couple years from now.
What do you guys think? I'd probably be ok doing a complete rebuild 5-10 years from now no problem but if it's likely I'd need it before that I'll just go straight to 4x8'
What do you guys think? I'd probably be ok doing a complete rebuild 5-10 years from now no problem but if it's likely I'd need it before that I'll just go straight to 4x8'
4x4 will last forever unless you have a Sudan sulcata. Most males top out at a max of about 130 pounds, and females around 60-80 pounds. If you make the door 26x16 inches, this box will last for your tortoise until it rots.
jaraquistain
New Member
Perfect thank you! You just saved me both $$ and time!
jaraquistain
New Member
For anyone wondering: these days and in the San Francisco Bay Area it’s cost me about $700 to get all the materials for this box so far. That includes heating and electronics and sensors and stuff on top of the lumber and insulation
Tom,I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll need something else for the dead of winter. Or you can move South!
The top of this box is half a sheet of plywood, insulated and sealed, so 4x4 feet. The inside of the box ends up being around 40x40 inches when its all done. I use an 18x28 inch Kane heat mat on the floor, and a 21" radiant heat panel on the top. Both are controlled by the same thermostat: https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller
I lower the RHP so that it is within 6-8 inches of the tortoises carapace that lives in the box. I like to screw a plastic shoe box to the back of the box to contain all the extra wires and thermostat. Weather strip seals the top where the hinged lid meets it, and I use plastic freezer stripping across the door to hold in heat when the door is open. The door drops down like a drawbridge and makes a ramp fro the tortoise to get in and out easier. I latch the door shut every night and open the door every morning.
In summer our daytime highs are usually right around 100, with night time lows around 65. I unplug the boxes during this time and temps stay between 70 and 90 in them. In Fall, we have warm sunny days usually into December, so I set the thermostat to 80. As soon as the weather turns cold in winter, I bump the thermostat up to 86, so they always have an area to get warmer in on a cold rainy day here. Spring time brings back warmer sunny days, so I lower the box temp back down to 80. This routine works great for any tropical species like Stars, radiata, sulcatas and leopards.
Here is the box during construction. I frame the plywood walls with 2x4s and use 1.5" rigid foam as insulation. Then I seal it with silicone caulking and cover the walls with plywood inside.
View attachment 291639
Here is all the electrical stuff going into it:
View attachment 291640
View attachment 291641
Here I want to show the weather stripping in place, and the drip loop. The drip loop is simply draping the cord down a bit so that when it rains, the water drips down the cord to the ground instead of following the cord downhill right into the box.
View attachment 291642
Ready to keep a tortoise warm and safe at night:
View attachment 291643
This is a great way to house a large leopard or sulcata in a relatively warm climate. We get cold winter nights in the 20s and this box, built and heated this way, keeps them in the 80s. Because my climate is so dry, I usually add a 5 gallon bucket or some tubs of water to generate some ambient humidity inside the box. People in the South East US wouldn't need to do this.
Questions and conversation are welcome!
For larger tortoises, multiple tortoises, and a different heating strategy, see this thread:
Double Door Night Box
As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...
We built a "night box" very similar to yours(used yours as a model) several years ago. As our sulcata has doubled in size, so have his poops and pees before he stays outside (of his house) most of the summer and fall(in Texas). How long can I expect the plywood to hold up? I try to keep hay on it to soak it up, and keep it cleaned out as much as i can working around him, but he's making a HUGE mess in there almost every day! You have been a huge inspiration with our tortoise house design. Hoping you may have some ideas and thoughts. Thanks!
I tried hay but it was too messy and did't help, and I didn't want them eating that soiled hay. I just use a layer of dry dirt on the bottom and scrape it out with a flat head shovel as needed. Daily sometimes.
I've only ever had the bottom rot out of one box. I housed three 40 pound adult female SA leopards in that box and I have never seen any tortoise make anywhere near that much mess. It was nasty and I was constantly cleaning it. That floor was totally untreated plywood and it still lasted 10 years before I simply put a patch over the affected area. I'm still using that box today.
Thank you! It's hard for me to be able to get in there with a shovel, but I may have to start doing that. Thank you!
Does the top not open? You can use any kind of metal bladed scraper. Garden hoe, doggy pooper scooper, etc...
The top opens, but we have it off the ground by about 4 or 5 inches l, and I'm short.
Unfortunately, his favorite place to pee and poop is under his mini oil heater box where we usually sleeps. I'll figure it out. Thanks for your help!
RandyTortoise
Well-Known Member
Are you putting the Kane heating pad directly on the floor? I put mine screwed into the back wall. Just curiousI like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll need something else for the dead of winter. Or you can move South!
The top of this box is half a sheet of plywood, insulated and sealed, so 4x4 feet. The inside of the box ends up being around 40x40 inches when its all done. I use an 18x28 inch Kane heat mat on the floor, and a 21" radiant heat panel on the top. Both are controlled by the same thermostat: https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller
I lower the RHP so that it is within 6-8 inches of the tortoises carapace that lives in the box. I like to screw a plastic shoe box to the back of the box to contain all the extra wires and thermostat. Weather strip seals the top where the hinged lid meets it, and I use plastic freezer stripping across the door to hold in heat when the door is open. The door drops down like a drawbridge and makes a ramp fro the tortoise to get in and out easier. I latch the door shut every night and open the door every morning.
In summer our daytime highs are usually right around 100, with night time lows around 65. I unplug the boxes during this time and temps stay between 70 and 90 in them. In Fall, we have warm sunny days usually into December, so I set the thermostat to 80. As soon as the weather turns cold in winter, I bump the thermostat up to 86, so they always have an area to get warmer in on a cold rainy day here. Spring time brings back warmer sunny days, so I lower the box temp back down to 80. This routine works great for any tropical species like Stars, radiata, sulcatas and leopards.
Here is the box during construction. I frame the plywood walls with 2x4s and use 1.5" rigid foam as insulation. Then I seal it with silicone caulking and cover the walls with plywood inside.
View attachment 291639
Here is all the electrical stuff going into it:
View attachment 291640
View attachment 291641
Here I want to show the weather stripping in place, and the drip loop. The drip loop is simply draping the cord down a bit so that when it rains, the water drips down the cord to the ground instead of following the cord downhill right into the box.
View attachment 291642
Ready to keep a tortoise warm and safe at night:
View attachment 291643
This is a great way to house a large leopard or sulcata in a relatively warm climate. We get cold winter nights in the 20s and this box, built and heated this way, keeps them in the 80s. Because my climate is so dry, I usually add a 5 gallon bucket or some tubs of water to generate some ambient humidity inside the box. People in the South East US wouldn't need to do this.
Questions and conversation are welcome!
For larger tortoises, multiple tortoises, and a different heating strategy, see this thread:
Double Door Night Box
As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...
Floor is better. They don't project heat very well, and heat rises. Its much more effective at raising the core temperature of the tortoise if they can lay on it.
Don't take my word for it. Measure this. Place a digital thermometer on its back at about the distance your tortoise's head would be from the mat if its butt was touching the mat. Then place that same thermometer on a mat laying flat on the floor. The difference will be very obvious. These mats are made for contact warmth. Radiant heat panels are better at projecting the heat out, but RHPs will not stand up to being ruled on by a large tortoises shell if wall mounted.
RandyTortoise
Well-Known Member
The instructions say don’t put any substrate on the pad. Are you using the pad without kind of substrate?
That is correct. No need for substrate in an outdoor tortoise box. I put a thin layer of loose dry dirt on the floor to make clean up easier.
RandyTortoise
Well-Known Member
Thanks. That makes it easier actually. I appreciate the advice.
Here is my new female leopard that arrived this morning from Pennsylvania. She is 20 years old and is about 16 pounds. Super friendly and cool
Attachments
RandyTortoise
Well-Known Member
This is my new outdoor pen as well. I am waiting for the greens to grow in a bit more. Maybe another week I think.
Attachments
jaraquistain
New Member
I just recently finished my outdoor setup and night box so I wanted to share it. If I were to do it all again I probably would have spent a bit more money to have the external sheathing plywood be a bit nicer and made sure my 2x4s were cleaner. I got all my lumber towards the end of the day after everyone had already picked the good wood out. The hot water heater tray is ok for the water, but is very flimsy and difficult to dump out. I'm considering switching over to a shallow pizza dough tray as Tom suggested somewhere in this thread. Overall it was a really fun build and not very difficult at all!
My tortoise's name is Taco and it is 2 years old, about 13" long
My tortoise's name is Taco and it is 2 years old, about 13" long
RandyTortoise
Well-Known Member
You did a really good job!!
