sleepy tortoise

[davidoff]

Hello everyone, i am very happy to have found your forum!

I am very new to tortoises - was given one as a present yesterday. I think it's a greek tortoise, here is a picture:


I put it in a large sandbox, approximately 50cm x 100cm and my local petshop suggested wood chippings as substrate. I also provided it with a shoebox through which i cut a hole for shelter and it has no heating lamp at the moment. (My local petshop does not specialise in tortoises, the one i was given came from out of town).

When it was given to me it was in a very small see-through plastic container and it was extremely active. Ever since I put it in the sandbox it spends most of its time with its head inside its shell (i am assuming it's sleeping.) The only time it was really active was this morning, for approximately 30-40 minutes it moved around the sandbox, and ate a very small amount of the letuce i provided it with.

Is it preparing for hibernation? Do i need to worry about its behaviour? Is it normal for them to sleep for so many hours?

I should also note that i live on a small island in the mediterranean, with moderate climate. Average temperature this time of year is approx 17 Celsius in the day time and 8 Celsius in the night time.

I would be very happy to hear comments or suggestions on this issue. Very pleased to meet you all!

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi davidoff:


Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

What would you like for us to call you?


I don't keep Greek tortoises, so I'll leave your questions to someone who knows more about them.

 

[wellington]

Welcome I don't do Greeks either. However I think you should change the title of your post so more people with the knowledge of this species can help. I know there are some things you need to change, bedding, food but I don't have the knowledge to help you with exactly what you should do. Make title it "need help with new Greek" or something like that to draw more attention. Good luck, he looks nice.

 

[ascott]

I do not house Greeks. However I do know some

I would change the substrate rather soon to include dirt and coco coir...they like to settle into the soil...I would also add some dead leaves from the yard for your little one to hide in (or peat moss) ..I know some will disagree with me but that is alright I would not have too high of humidity with this species...I would strive for humidity of 50 and not too much more as a constant ....IMHO...I would get a basking heat lamp that will let you achieve a hot spot of 90-95ish along with a long tube UVB light as well as a night heat light to assure your temps don't fall below 78ish for a healthy tortoise....I would also provide a hide...perhaps a half planter pot.....submerged partially into the substrate and then add a bunch of peat moss in the hide.....also maybe a couple bushy plants (real or silk) to also give additional hiding spots....

I am sure others will be by to give you their advice as well....beautiful little tortoise

 

[wellington]

One thing i'd like to add to Ascott's post. Make the night time heat source a CHE-ceramic heat emitter, so there is darkness at night. Some use the night time red bulbs, I guess those are okay also, I just prefer the CHE.

 

[davidoff]

Hello everyone, thank you for your prompt replies!

I am getting really worried now as the tortoise has been sleeping for almost 24 hours with a very small break in the evening. I will get hold of a heating lamp today and see what other petshops provide for substrate, and see if this helps him!

(Will also try to change the title of the post).

Thank you guys for the warm welcome!

 

[GBtortoises]

Your tortoise is a Greek tortoise, appears to be an Ibera Testudo (gracea) ibera. A view more clearer photos, including a plastron view should tell for sure.

I agree with some of the advice on daytime temperatures but Night time temperatures should be well below 78 degrees! More in the range of 60-70 degrees, 62-65 being more ideal. As long as the ambient temperature within the room that your tortoise enclosure will be in does not drop below 60 degrees at night there is absolutely no need for a night time heat source for Ibera. If your tortoise ends of being a Middle Eastern Greek subspecies then about 65 degrees is fine. Northern Mediterranean species such as Ibera do much better with a day to night temperature differential of 15-20 degrees. Daytime temperatures within the enclosure should be mid 70's to about 82 on the cooler end near the tortoises hide. The end where the basking light is located will naturally be warmer. Basking temperature of about 90-90, even 100 is okay for a young Greek. Humidity within 50-65% is good. No lower than that if possible. Lights within the enclosure should be on 14-16 hours a day.

 

[davidoff]

Hello GBtortoises, and thank you very much for your time and comment! Judging from the information I found online I am now more inclined to think that my tortoise is a Testudo Hermanni (he is missing the spurs on the thighs that from what I understand are a trait of Greeks). I will upload more photos soon.

I have now purchased a heating lamp so he can bask, and he has been slightly more active today. At the moment he is inside his shell (sleeping?) under the lamp. As this is my first tortoise ever, i am not sure if this is normal behaviour for him. I will test the temperatures you suggested and see if he becomes more active. I am a bit worried that he may want to hibernate, and since I am not sure if he is healthy enough to do this I will try to prevent this. I hope the heating lamp will help him stay active, although he has refused any food all day today.

With regards to substrate, I have mixed coco along with the old bedding and will see if he is more comfortable this way. I have gotten him a half log as well as a ceramic pot and i have created two hideouts for him. i used coco as the bedding for both. I have also gotten him some plastic plants and I hope he will like them and hide underneath.

I hope I am moving in the right direction for making him happy in his new home! Thank you all for your comments and suggestions! I will keep you posted on his progress

 

[lynnedit]

Look at your enclosure and analyze temps and lighting. Being too hot or too cold can make them sick. He should not hibernate or be allowed to hide for days right now. Next year perhaps; your climate is great to keep torts outdoors for a good part of the year!

Make sure you have an accurate thermometer so you really know what your temps are. Move the probe around to different spots. You can find them at home supply or hardware stores.
http://www.acurite.com/weather/ther...eter-with-temperature-sensor-probe-00888.html
With the Med torts like yours, it can get down to 60-70 at night and they seem to prefer this. Depending on the night temps in your house, you probably won't need heat at night. Basking temps should be 95 to 100F.

Make sure your heat lamp is a MVB (like a PowerSun MVB), that puts out heat and UV on the 'warm side' of the enclosure. Or, as Angi suggested, a 10.0 tube light for UV and then a basking light on the warm side.
Are you soaking him? Right now, preventing dehydration is more important than food intake. Torts in inside enclosures need this. A shallow plastic container with warm water to the level of his lower shell. Do this daily for a week, then 2-3x per week.
Keep us posted!

 

[davidoff]

Hello lynnedit, thanks for your concern and your reply!

The lamp i found after searching a couple of petshops is this one: http://shop.carkey.com.hk/product_info.php/products_id/304/language/en . from what i understand it produces warmth and light at the same time.

I have soaked him today for the first time, in lukewarm water. Will continue doing this as per your advise. He has been sleeping for most of the evening under the lamp.

Temperature in his enclosure at night is around 70 farenheit (20 celcius) without the lamp. I will check how warm it gets when the lamp is on during the daytime.

Should i pick him up / force him to wake up from time to time? I am guessing he should be awake at least for some part of every day?

 

[GBtortoises]

Based on the one photo (mostly by the head) the tortoise does appear to be a Greek, probably Ibera, tortoise. But many look very similar to Eastern Hermann's too. If you can post a clear photo of the plastron (bottom side) it will be very easy to tell.

 

[lynnedit]

Nice light, but it won't provide UVB/UVA (the type of light your tort needs for good shell growth if inside). If your tort will be outside a good part of the year, then that bulb might do in the future.
Until you can get one (might be hard where you are), something like that would at least provide warmth and light to get the basking area temps up. Even a regular house incandescent 100w bulb would do that.
This is an example of the type that would be best:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Arcadia-Rep...?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1325979573&sr=1-9
Try PM'ing bubbles01, a member of this forum, or search for threads by her (pm me if you need help pm'ing, lol). I believe she keeps Hermann's and is on Corisca. They have relatively similar needs, and she might be able to give hints on equipment in your area. I think hers burrow a lot in the winter, but they can do this as they were outside, eating well, etc., over many of the warmer months.
For now, work on the warmth and hydration.
While you are at it, get a cuttlefish (like they use for birds), and throw it in. Eventually your tort will nibble on it for calcium.

And yes, while you work on this, get the tort up and soak daily for a week, place under the warm side, offer food. After a week, do it at least every other day. Hang in there!

 

[pdrobber]

welcome you'll learn lots here.

 

[davidoff]

Based on the one photo (mostly by the head) the tortoise does appear to be a Greek, probably Ibera, tortoise. But many look very similar to Eastern Hermann's too. If you can post a clear photo of the plastron (bottom side) it will be very easy to tell.

Thank you all for your support!

Here are a couple of pictures of its plastron:



i don't know if it's very clear, but there are two spurs on his one thigh, and only one on his other.

And also here's a fuller picture of the plastron:



I hope these are clear enough for identification purposes!

He is much more active today, he has been up all morning roaming around his enclosure. I think the light has helped a lot! He has eaten some of the food i offered and he will be getting another soak soon.

You have all helped me immensely and have made this experience a lot less stressful!! Thank you very much!!

 

[lynnedit]

I won't try to comment on identification, but good news about your tort being more active, your tort just had to get you trained properly!

 

[GBtortoises]

Great, clear photos! Your tortoise is positively an Ibera Greek Testudo (gracea) ibera. In the first plastron photo you posted the "spurs" can be clearly seen on the back thigh area of the rear legs. In fact your's has double spurs, at least on the left rear leg. The lack of a hard tip tail spur eliminates it from being a Hermann's subspecies.