Species ID (antakyensis or terrestris?)

[Rogue]

I've been trying to research and figure this out on my own, but am not realy confident. My tortoise has a wide 5th vertebral scute, but I can't really say for sure if it is definitely larger than the 3rd scute (which I understand is an antakyan characteristic).

My guess is Syrian T. g. antakyensis. Can one of the experts help me ID species?

Sorry for the funky exposure colors. The top pic was taken in outside light so is most accurate.

 

[GBtortoises]

As of lately the subspecies name Testudo graeca antakyensis is no longer considered. They're all being lumped back into T. g. terrestris. This will all change again soon for sure! A couple of decades ago terrestris was considered invalid and many subspecies came out of it. Every few decades (or less) different researchers make different points to make the then current i.d.'s invalid and re-identify several subspecies. This has been going on with the Greek tortoise complex for as long as they've been attaching names to them. To a much lesser degree this has happened with Hermann's too. So whatever you decide that your Greek tortoise is today, it will likely change within the time that you have the tortoise! More importantly than knowing the specific name of the the tortoise or what country it may have originated in, is knowing the region of the world that it came from. Knowing this information better helps to provide the temperature, humidity and light cycle ranges that the tortoise has evolved to function in. Middle Eastern Greeks, like that in the photo you posted have some different requirements and temperature and humdity limits than do Northern Mediterranean Greeks or North African Greeks.

 

[Rogue]

Aww, come on GBt - you are no fun!

No, I agree that the ever-changing scientific subspecies designations aren't the most important thing to caring for these guys. However, I am curious to what your opinion is on subspecies, so I can better apply what I have been able to learn about specific countries of origin and environmental needs of the tortoises known as/formerly known as T. g. antakyensis/terrestris/floweri/etc....

 

[GBtortoises]

I'd consider it an Antakyan Greek. There is no real way to be sure of what country/exact region that it may have been imported from. Most of the imported Middle Eastern Greeks that have been imported over the past half dozen years are supposedly coming out of Syria, Lebanon, Jordan & western most Turkey.

 

[Rogue]

Thanks GBt. Too much info is always better than making assumptions, I always say.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

GBtortoises, I do love reading everything you post about those silly Greek (not!) tortoises. Just saying. : )

 

[jjuchems]

Did you get it from PetsMart? I bought 15 this year, I have group that looks identical.

 

[Rogue]

Yes, I got her from Petsmart in February of this year.