Subspecies

[jjaymeza]

Hey everyone I was just wondering what a subspecies means when it comes to a specific breed of tortoise example(Aldabra there are 4) what is the difference? Also if there is a difference how can you tell what your tortoises subspecies is?

 

[Alaskamike]

I am certainly not an authority. But when I decided to get an Aldabra, my preparation involved reading allot about their history, current wild populations, breeding programs as well as availability and care.

In that process this is in general what I understand.
- At one time there were several ( I don't know how many ) unique types of Aldabra depended t on the island they were on & the geologyfood sources available.
- Many of these areas were almost decimated by sailors collecting them for food & sales.
- in the process of re-establishing populations of wild Aldabra, they were moved to different places & placed in breeding programs for re-population.
- These programs have been highly successful
- in the process , the unique individual differences have become blurred since mating can take place among all types.
- today , while one can see a few differences in adults - such as flatter wider shells as opposed to higher, more rounded form. Specific " type" would be hard if not unproductive to determine.
- the subspecies developed due to population separation on several islands and the terrain / availability of food. For example one type developed much longer necks to reach tree foliage.

Most - if not all Aldabra today are of the same " type" and that would be mixed genetics producing some variants , but largely indistinguishable from one another. Some are flatter , some rounder domed , larger , smaller , blacker , browner , etc. but all mixed genetics.

Well , there is a somewhat vague idea. You may find more info with research.

Good fortune to you
Mike

 

[wellington]

@Tom @HermanniChris can probably explain some on other species like leopards, hermanns, etc.
Alaskamike covered the Aldabra and what a lot is probably a close answer to a lot of the subspecies. Now not as separated with so much cross breeding going on.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

@Tom @HermanniChris can probably explain some on other species like leopards, hermanns, etc.
Alaskamike covered the Aldabra and what a lot is probably a close answer to a lot of the subspecies. Now not as separated with so much cross breeding going on.

You got to understand as I double over in laughter regarding @Tom about subspecies, all that scientific mumbo jumbo, I think is his comment on record.

 

[Tom]

You got to understand as I double over in laughter regarding @Tom about subspecies, all that scientific mumbo jumbo, I think is his comment on record.

Thanks...

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

People, species is a biological concept so we can talk about units of living things. So to do that we need to both sort out what makes these things a species and what makes these same things not other species. At one time gross morphology was the suite of characteristics that scientists used. From the outside that would make star tortoises and radiated tortoises very similar, they are both tortoises with stars patterns on the shell. But we can also take a look on the inside (bones) which tend to be less responsive to things that change animals over time, compared to say a pattern on the skin (shell). Now people can look at genes. Genes also have 'normal rates of change' over time, so there is this idea that how long these things (species # 1) have been not sharing genes with these things (species # 2). There is also geography that offers more evidence of separation. They live on this continent, and those live on another continent. The rocks on these contents suggest they have not been together since (way back in time), well a long time ago, or at least since the Beetles broke up LOL.

Subspecies are right at the edge of these are different than those line. However the line is sorted out, look on the outside, bones (looks on the inside) or genes. As time goes on and methods get better the units (species) are ever better sorted out.

To make things less contentious with some scientists that like to gain their 15 minutes of fame by naming everything under the sun a new 'subspecies', the idea of distinct populations has made much sense to many people. You can think of distinct populations as potential species waiting for time to happen to them. that time will either push them back into one homogeneous population, or keep them separated so they gain enough distinction to be "species".

Justin Gerlach has been the primary driver behind trying to sort out what species may be in what is commonly thought of as Aldabra tortoises. I'm not up on the latest regarding this group. But if you look at the periodical publication by the IUCN TFTSG their publication has it declared as sorted out as it is at the time of publication.