Substrate for large indoor pen

[Rio_]

I am at a loss for what to use to cover the floor of our winter adult redfoot enclosure. It’s in our basement. Walls are lumber, and the floor is the concrete basement floor. We have used cardboard and cypress mulch in the past, but it didn’t work well. Right now it seems like the best option would be soil, but I would rather not have a huge cover on the pen to keep the basement from becoming a dusty mess. Here are some of the options I’ve considered along with their drawbacks. If you see anything I’m wrong about or ideas I’ve missed, please let me know. I love taking care of these guys, but between fire ants and raccoons in the summer and the substrate complexities in winter, I’m struggling.

Cypress mulch - sharp, small, dusty

Pine bark nuggets - large but fraying, termites, harmful fumes for humans and tortoises

Orchid bark - way too expensive to cover the necessary area

Sand - messy (silica) dust everywhere

Soil / Peat / Coir - dusty

Slate tiles - heavy, hard to clean, won’t absorb smells

Cardboard - ugly, not great for tortoises, fire hazard

Newspaper - similar to cardboard

 

[Markw84]

Hard to help since we don't know where you are located. Availability varies by where you are.

I use fir bark (orchid bark) Great substrate for tortoises. Easy to clean. Smells nice. Holds moisture well. Doesn't mold. Will eventually break down into a nice mulch for plants when I redo the enclosure and use the old bark in the garden. I am on the west coast so it is more available.

I am redoing the barn stalls for the Galapagos - so I needed to do about 450 sq ft. So I needed a large amount. I just did get 5 cubic yards delivered. It cost me $65 per yard.

I normally get 2 cu ft bags at my local nursery center for about $12. It would take 13.5 of them to equal one yard so that would have been $162/yd

Chewy.com sell fir bark for $40 for 24 quarts. That equals $1350 /yd

 

[Maggie3fan]

I keep my tortoises in a 20'x12' insulated shed...the floor is a double plywood...sheet 3/4" wood then that sheet styrofoam insulation and another sheet of plywood...the torts walk on the plywood...If it's Sulcata in the shed I buy a bale of hay and throw it in for the winter...

 

[wellington]

Do not use sand, cardboard or newspaper.
RF need high humidity, 80% cardboard and news paper won't do
Sand can cause impactions.
Orchid or fir bark or coconut coir is the recommended substrates for all tortoises.
As for summer and coon's, tortoises should be locked up every night in a night box, no matter where anyone lives
Fire ants can be held at bay with food grade diatomaceous earth but it's not a one and done. You have to keep on it.
Tortoises should live outside at all cost in summer weather when a yard is available!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I am at a loss for what to use to cover the floor of our winter adult redfoot enclosure. It’s in our basement. Walls are lumber, and the floor is the concrete basement floor. We have used cardboard and cypress mulch in the past, but it didn’t work well. Right now it seems like the best option would be soil, but I would rather not have a huge cover on the pen to keep the basement from becoming a dusty mess. Here are some of the options I’ve considered along with their drawbacks. If you see anything I’m wrong about or ideas I’ve missed, please let me know. I love taking care of these guys, but between fire ants and raccoons in the summer and the substrate complexities in winter, I’m struggling.

Cypress mulch - sharp, small, dusty

Pine bark nuggets - large but fraying, termites, harmful fumes for humans and tortoises

Orchid bark - way too expensive to cover the necessary area

Sand - messy (silica) dust everywhere

Soil / Peat / Coir - dusty

Slate tiles - heavy, hard to clean, won’t absorb smells

Cardboard - ugly, not great for tortoises, fire hazard

Newspaper - similar to cardboard

I recommend coir, it is not dusty if it is properly packed down and moist. It takes some maintenance yes, but I think it is the best out of your options.

 

[Yvonne G]

In my opinion you should first cover that cement. I use rubber horse stall mats, and from his picture, looks like Mark does too. Then you can put down 3 or 4 inches of fir bark. It comes in three kibble sizes, small, medium and large. The small is easier for them to walk on.

 

[Maggie3fan]

Do not use sand, cardboard or newspaper.
RF need high humidity, 80% cardboard and news paper won't do
Sand can cause impactions.
Orchid or fir bark or coconut coir is the recommended substrates for all tortoises.
As for summer and coon's, tortoises should be locked up every night in a night box, no matter where anyone lives
Fire ants can be held at bay with food grade diatomaceous earth but it's not a one and done. You have to keep on it.
Tortoises should live outside at all cost in summer weather when a yard is available!

Guess I missed the "Redfoot" part of this thread....duh...my redfoot lives on orchid bark inside and grass and weeds outside....for whatever reason I thought the tort was Sulcata

 

[wellington]

Guess I missed the "Redfoot" part of this thread....duh...my redfoot lives on orchid bark inside and grass and weeds outside....for whatever reason I thought the tort was Sulcata

I have done that before too.

 

[Markw84]

In my opinion you should first cover that cement. I use rubber horse stall mats, and from his picture, looks like Mark does too. .

Yes I do. I actually put 3" foam insulation (R16.5) then 3/4" stall matts, then the fir bark. Tortoises use the ground to moderate their temperatures. In the US, our ground temperatures can be way too cold in the winter and even though the room is heated, the tortoise stays much cooler without insulated floor.

 

[Rio_]

I’m leaning toward finding some good insulation for the concrete (thanks, Yvonne), then a layer of coir/soil mix, top that with a thin layer of orchid bark (didn’t realize it is fir, which is probably why it is so expensive here, as I mentioned in my original post) to help a little with dust, and if dust does become a problem, stretching some plastic or a sheet across the pen as a ceiling, which makes the pen a little less accessible but would help with humidity, which probably wouldn’t be an issue in our basement. We are in Alabama, and the basement is a high-humidity environment.

Complicating all these decisions are my concerns about the health risks of some of the products commonly used in reptile keeping. We have had some cancer deaths among our family and friends, and those have made me overly cautious. I knew a fair amount about reptile care before getting back into the hobby a few years ago, but I knew next to nothing about VOCs, silica dust, and the impact on on our lungs of some types of diatomaceous earth (but maybe not food-grade, it’s apparently debatable). I know it comes across as paranoia, but seeing loved ones deal with cancer has made me want to avoid introducing any unnecessary risk factors within my household at all costs. I needed to vent yesterday to clear my head, making the mental space for a better plan of action, and I appreciate y’all providing your suggestions!