Substrate for new sulcata table

[smoke_kush]

i am building a 4x4foot wooden indoor enclosure. I have been reading up on this forum but can't seem to find any definite answers on a safe substrate. My tortoise eats everything so I need something that is not easy to digest and that is not foul smelling. Preferably cheap but, anything for my tort! Below is a picture of me and kamechan, he's a baby and I want the best for him I was planning on using some kind of a sand under his heat lamp but I have heard that the ingestion of that can cause many problems in his digestive system. I also want to use a dark colored dirt that will be able to stay moist.

 

[nrfitchett4]

if he eats everything why not dirt with hay on top? Not sure how much you would need for an enclosure that big. Everyone seems to like the bed a beast coconut stuff mixed with either sand or top soil. But I'm not sure how much that stuff costs.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Most use a 50/50 combination of sand and eco earth. I use fine grade orchid bark. I don't agree with having hay as part of the substrate as it will mold from the damp substrate. I wouldn't want a baby breathing in mold spores...

 

[Laura]

It looks like your little one is already getting pyramiding.. What is its diet and other details...

 

[smoke_kush]

Due to his previous owners his shell was extremely soft and his was slightly pyramiding. He was on a diet of straight up lettuce. I started feeding him a variety of grasses and different kinds of greens and veggies. I am slowly weening him off the greens, but come to find out, torts are extremely picky. I'm going to have to go the old starvation method until he gets hungry enough to eat his hay. I also started using a calcium supplement and he is improving greatly. In my new enclosure, I planted a mix of seeds that I bought on Carolina pet supply and am going to get more on Sunday. Thanks for the quick responses guys and I greatly appreciate your concerns =) Can't wait to post pictures up of Kame's new home!

 

[Yvonne G]

You won't get Kame to eat hay for a year or so more. The really little guys just plain won't eat it. Your best bet is to either use what hay your have and cut it up with the scissors really small, or buy the Salad-Style Hay from www.carolinapetsupply.com/ Then, you moisten the greens (I use Spring Mix, a packaged mixture of greens from the grocery store) place a glob of them at the feeding station, then take a pinch of the cut up hay and sprinkle it over the top of the greens. Not too much, just a pinch. After a week or so if he eats that real good, you can add a little more, maybe two pinches. You get the idea...

We've just recently learned that some of the packaged Spring Mix has a little too much spinach in it. If you notice that with your mixture, you should just pick out some of it and toss it. In fact, because your little guy came to you with a soft shell, it might be a pretty good idea to pick out all of the spinach. (Spinach binds the calcium to it and it is "pooped" out, with no benefit to the tortoise) My sister uses the Spring Mix then she goes outside with a plastic bag and a pair of scissors and picks dandelion and whatever other weeds she might happen upon. Be sure to wash the weeds before adding them to the Spring Mix.

Cute little baby...thanks for sharing your picture.

Yvonne

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I believe some 'old timers' insist upon pushing hay at small tortoises when they are simply too small to eat it. I have had much success at growing healthy babies into healthy adults by feeding them greens, weeds, leafs, blossoms, and various veggies and waiting until the animal is one or two years old before forcing hay into their diet. I do feed some hay by getting the chopped salad type hay from CPS and sprinkling it over whatever I'm feeding that day. So they get some hay and still eat good...works for me...seems to work for them too...

 

[smoke_kush]

I was just worried about feeding him greens everyday because somebody said that too many greens cause gout. If it's not his food, then what caused the pyramiding? I am currently using a 5.0 UVB light that's 18inches long and am going to get another UVB lamp so he can have two in his new enclosure. I am looking for a substrate similar to dirt that is non toxic to Kame that is easily found at a store. Any suggestions? If possible, please post links.

 

[Yvonne G]

Pyramiding is caused by not enough exercise, too dry a habitat, wrong lighting and wrong food. These things in combination. Too many greens don't cause gout. The wrong kind of greens fed too often causes gout. I copied this from the Russiantortoise.org site:

Purines:
Purines are well known in humans as being a contributing factor in gout. Russian tortoises fed large amounts can develop kidney disease.

(Purines are asparagus, cauliflour, kidney beans, lentils, lima beans, mushrooms, navy beans spinach, to name a few)

Goitrogens:
This compound is implicated in the development of enlarged thyroid glands (Goiters). They interfere with the uptake of iodine. Some eperts believe that all the Brassicae family should be avoided like the plague due to this. However Kuzmin and others observe that plants from this family are regularly eaten¹. A recent paper outlines in details the diet of Russian Tortoises . Limit (don't eliminate) the quantities of kale, mustard, and other cruciferous plants.

In my opinion, you can feed your tortoise almost anything that is sold in the grocery store. The only problem is you can't just feed one item, or base the whole diet on one thing. You need to offer a wide variety of things. When we talk of feeding your tortoise greens we mean things like turnip greens, dandelion, red and green leaf lettuce, escarole, endive, etc. That's why I always suggest Spring Mix. With just one little tortoise, if you were to buy one head of each thing listed above, the majority of it would go to waste. So a small package of Spring Mix would do nicely, and probably wouldn't rot before he ate it all.

Yvonne

Yvonne

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Pyramiding is caused from lack of humidity, lack of exercise, not enough UVB and incorrect feeding...a combination of all of these mixed around anyway you want. It is very hard to raise a Sulcata in captivity without pyramiding. I am not saying it can't be done, I am saying it's difficult and it takes acute observation. By the time you notice your tort is starting to pyramid, it is hard to reverse the movement. I am extremely proud of Bob, my bigger Sulcata. We estimate he was 5 or 6 when I got him. He was already pyramided. But he was young and just so sweet I figured I could reverse the trend. I was standing in his shed just now (he's 14 yrs now)and I can see that he has developed that dip that they get on the back of their carapace. I'm not sure what that part is called. Dorsal scute? So now he has that dip and what's worse is the flares over his back legs. Yet, I have spent $800 for a great shed to live in. I feed him the best way possible thru the winter (mostly locally grown grass hay) and he grazes all spring summer and autumn. He has a 250 watt Trex UVB bulb for the good rays and basking. So the point of this is no matter how hard we try to get our husbandry perfect and set them up so well...they just don't always cooperate...now I have read that the dip pretty much means MBD...do you agree with that Danny?

 

[nrfitchett4]

You won't get Kame to eat hay for a year or so more. The really little guys just plain won't eat it. Your best bet is to either use what hay your have and cut it up with the scissors really small, or buy the Salad-Style Hay from www.carolinapetsupply.com/ Then, you moisten the greens (I use Spring Mix, a packaged mixture of greens from the grocery store) place a glob of them at the feeding station, then take a pinch of the cut up hay and sprinkle it over the top of the greens. Not too much, just a pinch. After a week or so if he eats that real good, you can add a little more, maybe two pinches. You get the idea...

We've just recently learned that some of the packaged Spring Mix has a little too much spinach in it. If you notice that with your mixture, you should just pick out some of it and toss it. In fact, because your little guy came to you with a soft shell, it might be a pretty good idea to pick out all of the spinach. (Spinach binds the calcium to it and it is "pooped" out, with no benefit to the tortoise) My sister uses the Spring Mix then she goes outside with a plastic bag and a pair of scissors and picks dandelion and whatever other weeds she might happen upon. Be sure to wash the weeds before adding them to the Spring Mix.

Cute little baby...thanks for sharing your picture.

Yvonne

My local grocery (HEB) had a bag of what they call field mix, no spinach, just romaine, endive, radichio and a couple of others. Our new baby has really taken a liking to it.

 

[Sunrise]

cute sulcata, beautiful mom.