Sulcuta tortoise need help

Tom

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Hey everyone. So this morning i took raphy out at the back in his portable enclose, and i saw him eating the grass i just laid down. I guess like most animals he actually wants the sun to be active. He doesnt like lettuce, skips it to get to the grass and occasionally takes a bite on tomatoes ive diced up. Im currently at the store buying the things i need for his enclose. like a light for when i have him indoors. Etc

Grass is good, but he needs other things too. This is explained in the link I left in post number 6.

I use 65 watt flood bulbs from the hardware store for heat. You won't need indoor UV if he's getting sunshine on a regular basis. You do need night heat controlled by a thermostat, so he doesn't get too cold over night. Ceramic heating elements work best.
 

Antoni

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Grass is good, but he needs other things too. This is explained in the link I left in post number 6.

I use 65 watt flood bulbs from the hardware store for heat. You won't need indoor UV if he's getting sunshine on a regular basis. You do need night heat controlled by a thermostat, so he doesn't get too cold over night. Ceramic heating elements work best.
Hello, so i ended up buying a basking light from the pet store and equiped it on a spot light. He's just basking there wagging his tail and loving it. I still feed him lettuce grass and some diced tomatoes. I also bought carrot that i can grate to feed occasionally. My challenge now is the humidity lvl. Hes in my room right now and at this moment i added the water and covered 3/4 of the enclosement (the 1/4 for the light) and it seems to be going back up to 80. When i had him outside 85% was pretty easy to achieve but indoor is a lil challenging considering 80% isnt too comfortable for me haha. But right now its at 75. Ill try to get it to 80-85% and hope it stays at that for awhile.. also is basking spot is a ceramic tile (rough side)
 

Antoni

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While he is a baby, he needs a large indoor enclosure to be in most of the time. All of your questions about heating and lighting are explained in those threads.

Once he reaches 8-10" he can live outside full time with a heated shelter for cold days and nights. When the time comes, I can post lots of examples of outdoor night boxes for you.

It is a simple thing to make a cover for an outdoor enclosure to keep birds and other predators away. Do a search for "outdoor enclosures" and lots of cheap, easy and simple examples will come up for you.

We will help you get through this. Once you understand all the info and have him set up correctly, things will be much easier. Its just getting the initial set up correct that can feel a bit daunting.
I agree and definitely see that. Hes in a 21x30
10" depth hes still 1 1/2 wide and 2 long. As far as the indoor enclosure. The outdoor he has my whole backyard where i let him out for about an hour a day if there's sun. Is that lenght of time out ok? Or are they better off staying in the enclosure? Also (observation) hes flat on his chest basking on the light with his eyes closed haha its cute but im wondering if theres a limit i should put to that so that he starts walking around again instead of always sleeping.
 

Antoni

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So the temp is steadily at 95• and the humidity is at 80-85% thank you all so much for walking me through this. When im finished with the enclosement i will post a picture for everyone to see raphael. I will also post on this same thread an update on his appetite and behavior. Thanks again everyone. You're all the best.
 

Speedy-1

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saginawhxc

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I read that 75% of torts diet should be grass and the rest are other fruits and veggies. What would u recommend to replace tomatoes?
Read the diet sheet posted by Speedy. It will help.

Fruits and veggies should generally be avoided. Some can be given occasionally as treats, but why do it if there are much healthier options available?

Here is what i do.

I buy a weekly mix of greens inculding collard, turnip, and mustard greens. Occasionally I throw some kale into the mix. Daily I pick some dandelion, plantain, and clover from the yard and mix it in with the store greens. I cut a healthy handful of grass and throw it all on top. Then I top all of it off with some moistened tortoise hay from tortoisesupply.com, and some moistened Mazuri and/or zoo med.

Once a week or so I'll feed some opuntia.

It can be daunting, but learn and identify the weeds, plants, and flowers growing on your property. Use the listed care sheet, this forum, or a site called tortoise table to figure out what you can feed your tortoise. When I started this process of felt completely overwhelmed, but now know 7 or 8 plants by sight that are much better diet than anything you can buy at the store.
 

Antoni

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hey everyone, so i went to a reptile store to get informed and get settled by today, i bought some mazuri pellets just to try it (lemme know if that's good) and reptivite (they said for calcium) i mixed it with the grass and he was eating the grass so lemme know if i shouldnt do any of these... also i explained the situation and the owner questioned as to why i have the humidity at 80% when it's a desert turtoise. The owner then said to have it around 50-60% (please inform me more on this.) i explained to the owner that it's a desert/tropical turtle maybe thats why it would be around 80%.. they then showed me their sulcutas from baby to godzilla, they had different sizes. I mean i know adaptability and flexibility is one thing. But they should be raising them right to get to that point. Also they questioned why bathe the tortoise daily when again its a desert turtoise. I also explained that the season when sulcutas hatch are during rainy and humid season in africa.(they look at me as if im a gullable person who believes everything on the internet.)The store is owned by a husband a wife and they have various reptiles. Lemme know if theres anything else i should look into.
 

Antoni

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Read the diet sheet posted by Speedy. It will help.

Fruits and veggies should generally be avoided. Some can be given occasionally as treats, but why do it if there are much healthier options available?

Here is what i do.

I buy a weekly mix of greens inculding collard, turnip, and mustard greens. Occasionally I throw some kale into the mix. Daily I pick some dandelion, plantain, and clover from the yard and mix it in with the store greens. I cut a healthy handful of grass and throw it all on top. Then I top all of it off with some moistened tortoise hay from tortoisesupply.com, and some moistened Mazuri and/or zoo med.

Once a week or so I'll feed some opuntia.

It can be daunting, but learn and identify the weeds, plants, and flowers growing on your property. Use the listed care sheet, this forum, or a site called tortoise table to figure out what you can feed your tortoise. When I started this process of felt completely overwhelmed, but now know 7 or 8 plants by sight that are much better diet than anything you can buy at the store.
Just did. A lil puzzled still. My sully only eats a bite here and there. I understand having a variety of grass but i still dont know how much of what to put. I can trust him to know what to eat but i wouldnt know if it wants or need calcium or any other vitamin its lacking.
 

saginawhxc

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Just did. A lil puzzled still. My sully only eats a bite here and there. I understand having a variety of grass but i still dont know how much of what to put. I can trust him to know what to eat but i wouldnt know if it wants or need calcium or any other vitamin its lacking.
Don't trust him to know what to eat. He is a wild animal and will eat things he shouldn't. If I let my toddler eat whatever she wanted she would eat a diet purely consisting of ice cream sandwiches. You need to try to guide it to eat healthy. That means removing dangerous plants in his outdoor enclosure, and providing healthy balanced meals.

Just like in a human diet, variety is the most important thing. Purely eating one thing will never be what is best. So don't worry about how much of what to mix into a meal. Just provide a variety. For the record though I probably provide about 40% store greens, 50% weeds and grasses from the yard, and about 10% of stuff like the tortoise hay I mentioned or Mazuri.

I do also dust my sulcata's meal twice a week with a calcium vitamin. Plus I always provide a cuttlebone for him to chew on in case he needs a little extra calcium.

So relax, memorize the diet sheet, remember variety is king, and enjoy your tortoise. It's overwhelming now, but you'll get the hang of it.
 

Tom

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hey everyone, so i went to a reptile store to get informed and get settled by today, i bought some mazuri pellets just to try it (lemme know if that's good) and reptivite (they said for calcium) i mixed it with the grass and he was eating the grass so lemme know if i shouldnt do any of these... also i explained the situation and the owner questioned as to why i have the humidity at 80% when it's a desert turtoise. The owner then said to have it around 50-60% (please inform me more on this.) i explained to the owner that it's a desert/tropical turtle maybe thats why it would be around 80%.. they then showed me their sulcutas from baby to godzilla, they had different sizes. I mean i know adaptability and flexibility is one thing. But they should be raising them right to get to that point. Also they questioned why bathe the tortoise daily when again its a desert turtoise. I also explained that the season when sulcutas hatch are during rainy and humid season in africa.(they look at me as if im a gullable person who believes everything on the internet.)The store is owned by a husband a wife and they have various reptiles. Lemme know if theres anything else i should look into.

The pet store people are typical of what it out there. They read the same books and talked to the same people I talked to 20-30 years ago. Those books and that info was wrong then and its wrong now. That care info was based on incorrect assumptions about their life in the wild. YOU already know more than those pet store owners because you've been reading here, and how lucky is your tortoise that you found us! Imagine all the people following the advice given by breeders and pet stores that still think these are desert animals that need a dry enclosure and once a week soaks. A large percentage of those babies die, and the ones that survive are horribly disfigured with pyramiding. Yet those people persist and never learn that the way they are doing it and recommending doesn't work.

You got it right. These are NOT desert animals. They live in grassland and forest edge areas. It takes a lot of annual rainfall to maintain grass lands and forests, right? All those books mention the 8-9 months of the year when its dry over there, but they never talk about the other 3-4 months. Guess what? MONSOON season!!! Rainy, hot, marshy and super humid. Puddles and green growing food everywhere. During the dry spells this species is underground anyway. They don't experience the dryness. They are down in their damp, warm, humid burrows. Wild sulcatas spend 95% of their lives underground.

Please let me know the name of the store and the city, so that I may call them and have a conversation about this.
 

Antoni

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The pet store people are typical of what it out there. They read the same books and talked to the same people I talked to 20-30 years ago. Those books and that info was wrong then and its wrong now. That care info was based on incorrect assumptions about their life in the wild. YOU already know more than those pet store owners because you've been reading here, and how lucky is your tortoise that you found us! Imagine all the people following the advice given by breeders and pet stores that still think these are desert animals that need a dry enclosure and once a week soaks. A large percentage of those babies die, and the ones that survive are horribly disfigured with pyramiding. Yet those people persist and never learn that the way they are doing it and recommending doesn't work.

You got it right. These are NOT desert animals. They live in grassland and forest edge areas. It takes a lot of annual rainfall to maintain grass lands and forests, right? All those books mention the 8-9 months of the year when its dry over there, but they never talk about the other 3-4 months. Guess what? MONSOON season!!! Rainy, hot, marshy and super humid. Puddles and green growing food everywhere. During the dry spells this species is underground anyway. They don't experience the dryness. They are down in their damp, warm, humid burrows. Wild sulcatas spend 95% of their lives underground.

Please let me know the name of the store and the city, so that I may call them and have a conversation about this.
Hey, so as a bedding i used an organic soil topped with some peat moss and decorative moss (all organic) (even the decorative moss is real and organic) it holds the humidity at the % it needs which is at 80-85% while at 100• basking spot, 80• warm spot 75•on cool spot and 70-73• on hide. Im glad u brought up marshy** because the setting looks very marshy to me, but im not sure if that's normal. I could add more soil/peat moss to remove wet spots and have it as damp/moist instead. Would that work? As far as food, he eats grass and weeds, i placed clovers, dandelion, bermuda grass mushed mazuri pellets (moistened) calcium powder (was recommended twice a week if i recall that correctly.) and i throw in lettuce and red cabage just for variety. Later ill try mushing them altogether with the mazuri and see if he likes it that way. And yes, if these tortoises are found near the oasis of the sahara desert, even if they are desert turtles, they are close to the oasis for a reason right? Oh i missed something u said.. so it is normal to have wet spots.. i did see him lay flat on a puddle then go inside the hide to sleep last night. Also i bought a no heat uv light for my busy days where im out the whole day coz of school/work.. i have it scheduled to be on at 5:30am-6pm for uv and 5:30-7pm with basking light(has heat and uv.) i have the no heat acting as the sun above so that it can give it vitamins anywhere in the enclosement. Lemme know if there's anything i can add or change. I think om getting the hang of it thanks to you all.
 
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Tom

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Hey, so as a bedding i used an organic soil topped with some peat moss and decorative moss (all organic) (even the decorative moss is real and organic) it holds the humidity at the % it needs which is at 80-85% while at 100• basking spot, 80• warm spot 75•on cool spot and 70-73• on hide. Im glad u brought up marshy** because the setting looks very marshy to me, but im not sure if that's normal. I could add more soil/peat moss to remove wet spots and have it as damp/moist instead. Would that work? As far as food, he eats grass and weeds, i placed clovers, dandelion, bermuda grass mushed mazuri pellets (moistened) calcium powder (was recommended twice a week if i recall that correctly.) and i throw in lettuce and red cabage just for variety. Later ill try mushing them altogether with the mazuri and see if he likes it that way. And yes, if these tortoises are found near the oasis of the sahara desert, even if they are desert turtles, they are close to the oasis for a reason right? Oh i missed something u said.. so it is normal to have wet spots.. i did see him lay flat on a puddle then go inside the hide to sleep last night. Also i bought a no heat uv light for my busy days where im out the whole day coz of school/work.. i have it scheduled to be on at 5:30am-6pm for uv and 5:30-7pm with basking light(has heat and uv.) i have the no heat acting as the sun above so that it can give it vitamins anywhere in the enclosement. Lemme know if there's anything i can add or change. I think om getting the hang of it thanks to you all.

The first and most alarming thing in you post is that your temperatures are much too cool, especially with humidity. It should never drop below 80 degrees.

It also sound much too wet. Your substrate should be just a little damp on top, not wet.

What type of UV did you buy? Did the pet store sell you a coil bulb? Those can damage their eyes and should not be used.

I would not use any of that stuff for substrate. You can't know what composted materiel your soil is made of. Could be fine or it could be toxic plants or toxic yard chemicals. Mine all try to eat moss. Some people use it, but it doesn't work for me. Fine grade orchid bark works best for babies.

All of this and so much more is in those links. All you have to do is read them...
 

Antoni

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The first and most alarming thing in you post is that your temperatures are much too cool, especially with humidity. It should never drop below 80 degrees.

It also sound much too wet. Your substrate should be just a little damp on top, not wet.

What type of UV did you buy? Did the pet store sell you a coil bulb? Those can damage their eyes and should not be used.

I would not use any of that stuff for substrate. You can't know what composted materiel your soil is made of. Could be fine or it could be toxic plants or toxic yard chemicals. Mine all try to eat moss. Some people use it, but it doesn't work for me. Fine grade orchid bark works best for babies.

All of this and so much more is in those links. All you have to do is read them...
I did read the links and avoided what could have been a disaster. I didnt get a coiled one, i read that its bad for the eyes. The soil is organic so there shouldnt be any chemicals or pesticides on it, i read the contents also, nothing that should harm them as well as the moss, the thing i do need to change tho is the wetness by adding more substrate. Also thanks for correcting the temperature. I wasnt too sure about it. I assumed the (nights) could be a lil cooler so that it can learn to adjust its temperature while growing up. But it may be too soon for it. I also like the soil/moss substrate because i do want it to burrow. When its bigger my outdoor enclosure would be something they could burrow but not so deep that it could collapse on them or have them drown in water, i dont wanna take a natural instinct from them just because it's in captivity.. again. Im all new to this and i know that you're more knowledgeable so let me know if what im doing would harm my sully. Aside from wetness which will be adjusted today and the temp.
 

Tom

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I did read the links and avoided what could have been a disaster. I didnt get a coiled one, i read that its bad for the eyes. The soil is organic so there shouldnt be any chemicals or pesticides on it, i read the contents also, nothing that should harm them as well as the moss, the thing i do need to change tho is the wetness by adding more substrate. Also thanks for correcting the temperature. I wasnt too sure about it. I assumed the (nights) could be a lil cooler so that it can learn to adjust its temperature while growing up. But it may be too soon for it. I also like the soil/moss substrate because i do want it to burrow. When its bigger my outdoor enclosure would be something they could burrow but not so deep that it could collapse on them or have them drown in water, i dont wanna take a natural instinct from them just because it's in captivity.. again. Im all new to this and i know that you're more knowledgeable so let me know if what im doing would harm my sully. Aside from wetness which will be adjusted today and the temp.

Soil that you buy in a bag at the store is made from people's yard waste that is composted at the seller's facility. There is no way to know what the soil is made of. It could be oleander clippings which are super toxic, or it could be harmless chemical free weeds from an empty lot. It could be lawn clippings treated with "weed n feed" or it could be tree leaves that dropped in the fall. The point is that you don't know. There is no way to know unless you composted the soil yourself from your own ingredients. That is why I say not to use soil. And its also messy and muddy too. It is for these reasons that I say orchid bark works best for this species. Orchid bark doesn't turn to mud, it has nothing toxic in it, it resists mold and fungus, and you can keep the lower layers damp while the upper layer that is in contact with the tortoise can stay relatively dry-ish.

If your tortoise is like mine, it will try to eat the moss. This can cause intestinal blockage and the moss is not a good food item anyway. This is why I don't use moss.

Tropical species of reptiles don't "adjust" to cooler temps. They need what they need. Some species are more adaptable than others and can survive the wrong temps and conditions, but they don't "get used to it". Adult sulcatas can tolerate a wide range of temps and conditions, but the goal should still be to provide them with optimal conditions and temps when we can. Babies, not so much. Babies have a much smaller margin of error and low tolerance for incorrect conditions.

Burrows are good for them here in SoCal in summer, but our nights are too cold for the rest of the year. I let my adults use there own self-dug burrow all summer, but I cover the hole and make them use their heated night boxes for spring, fall and winter. See it here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-burrows.50846/
I also came up with this for smaller juvenile sulcatas:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/daisys-new-enclosure.28662/


Something to keep in mind is that we live in a temperate climate. We have winters and cold nights. Sulcatas come from the Sahel region of Africa, south of the Sahara desert. They have two seasons: Hot and hotter. Sulcatas can survive our temperatures, but they need some help in the form of electrically heated shelters during our cooler months. During the heat of the day and the occasional cool winter night over there, sulcatas stay in their burrows where the temperatures are warm day and night, and they humidity is at least moderate, if not high. I'm taking about adults above, and all of this is even more critical for a baby.

I think its awesome that you are here and asking questions! You will learn faster that way. I hope my info is helpful to you and your tortoise.
 
Last edited:

Tom

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You won't need this for a year or two, but here is what I mean when I talk about heated night boxes:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/double-door-night-box.129054/

You just put something like one of these in your tortoises large outdoor enclosure, and they can live outside full time. On cooler winter days and cold nights, the tortoise will hang out in its warm box, which kind of simulates a "burrow" for them. The tortoise can come out and graze in the sun, and then retreat to its warm box as needed.
 

Antoni

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Joined
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Messages
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Soil that you buy in a bag at the store is made from people's yard waste that is composted at the seller's facility. There is no way to know what the soil is made of. It could be oleander clippings which are super toxic, or it could be harmless chemical free weeds from an empty lot. It could be lawn clippings treated with "weed n feed" or it could be tree leaves that dropped in the fall. The point is that you don't know. There is no way to know unless you composted the soil yourself from your own ingredients. That is why I say not to use soil. And its also messy and muddy too. It is for these reasons that I say orchid bark works best for this species. Orchid bark doesn't turn to mud, it has nothing toxic in it, it resists mold and fungus, and you can keep the lower layers damp while the upper layer that is in contact with the tortoise can stay relatively dry-ish.

If your tortoise is like mine, it will try to eat the moss. This can cause intestinal blockage and the moss is not a good food item anyway. This is why I don't use moss.

Tropical species of reptiles don't "adjust" to cooler temps. They need what they need. Some species are more adaptable than others and can survive the wrong temps and conditions, but they don't "get used to it". Adult sulcatas can tolerate a wide range of temps and conditions, but the goal should still be to provide them with optimal conditions and temps when we can. Babies, not so much. Babies have a much smaller margin of error and low tolerance for incorrect conditions.

Burrows are good for them here in SoCal in summer, but our nights are too cold for the rest of the year. I let my adults use there own self-dug burrow all summer, but I cover the hole and make them use their heated night boxes for spring, fall and winter. See it here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-burrows.50846/
I also came up with this for smaller juvenile sulcatas:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/daisys-new-enclosure.28662/


Something to keep in mind is that we live in a temperate climate. We have winters and cold nights. Sulcatas come from the Sahel region of Africa, south of the Sahara desert. They have two seasons: Hot and hotter. Sulcatas can survive our temperatures, but they need some help in the form of electrically heated shelters during our cooler months. During the heat of the day and the occasional cool winter night over there, sulcatas stay in their burrows where the temperatures are warm day and night, and they humidity is at least moderate, if not high. I'm taking about adults above, and all of this is even more critical for a baby.

I think its awesome that you are here and asking questions! You will learn faster that way. I hope my info is helpful to you and your tortoise.
The reason i asked about the moss is because i wasnt sure if it was bad for it. It wasnt really on the link saying its bad for it, unless i misread it or misunderstood it. I can easily remove the moss but as far as the soil, it is the bottom layer because i have the bermuda grass growing from it. So my sully wont really touch the soil. The only surface it touches is the peat moss, ceramic tiles where the basking spot is and a wooden barrel like hide. Now i could add some orchid bark there instead of the other moss as an upgrade. But the purpose of me adding the peat moss was for him to avoid the soil and keep humidity and because it was one of the option for bedding suggested. You have been a great help, i do need these information and im trying to absorb as much as i can and work with what i can work with.. orchid bark would have been a better choice. But at the time i liked the idea and how the peat moss looked haha so i went with that. So as far as substrate ill keep the same material.. make it less watery, remove the other kind of moss (which is the one he tries to eat) he doesnt bother with peat moss, idk if its because its not green. It goes to his plate to eat the grass and pelet. ill observe further and see if it's necessary for me to redo the enclosure with orchid bark.
 

Antoni

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Messages
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You won't need this for a year or two, but here is what I mean when I talk about heated night boxes:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/double-door-night-box.129054/

You just put something like one of these in your tortoises large outdoor enclosure, and they can live outside full time. On cooler winter days and cold nights, the tortoise will hang out in its warm box, which kind of simulates a "burrow" for them. The tortoise can come out and graze in the sun, and then retreat to its warm box as needed.
Cool. I had something like this in mind
 
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