Temperature and humidity solutions for shed

[JD7.62]

First post here and sorry for the long read.

I I've on the Florida panhandle, right on Santa Rosa Sound. Our winter temps will get in the low 30s to upper 20s a few nights a year. Extremes, every few years may get into the upper teens. Typical nights are in the 40s-50s.

I currently have a 70lb sulcata that has free reign of the backyard. His house is tucked up against the south side of the house and is sheltered from any cold north winds. It is heated and insulated. He has been fine over winter.

However, my newest addition, a 4.5 year old aldabra has different accommodations. I can not let him free roam just yet as I'm not sure he wouldn't just walk off the sea wall (the sulcata will not). Also, being that I've only had him a week and winter is fast approaching, I can't trust him to get into his hide on his own.

I converted an approximate 8'x12' shed. I have UVA/UVB lights and ceramic heat bulbs. When I'm home he grazes in the fenced in portion of the yard during the day and goes in the shed at night.

After all of that. My question is, what are my best options for ambient heat on those coldest of nights (shed is not insulated but the ceramic bulbs are great for a hot spot). I'm thinking of using an oil filled space heater. Thoughts?

Im on the water so the humidity is usually high, heck it's 93% right now, but it will dry out after a cold front. What is my beat choice here?

 

[wellington]

I know it was probably just for the pic, but I'm going to say it anyway. The two should not be together. The sulcata will for sure harm the much more docile Aldabra.
As for your heat question. Seeing your in FL and don't have too many cold nights or days, you could either heat the whole shed with the oil filled heater, or you could make a warm hide box that he could go into when he needs to warm up. You could also do both. Keep the shed temp around 70-75 with the hide box being 80. Setting everything on a thermostats will ensure he stays warm and will be a lot less worry and adjusting on you.
Congrats on the Aldabra and both are very nice looking.

 

[Tom]

Both tortoises need separate enclosures with proper walls to contain them. You think the sulcata won't go over that wall because he hasn't yet, but one day he is likely to show you that you are wrong.

Over head heat lamps, CHEs and red bulbs should not be used over large tortoise in outdoor enclosures. They usually "slow burn" the carapace while not warming the tortoise enough in the middle or bottom. Be very careful with those and check the temp under them at tortoise carapace height. Personally, having seen the damage those cause, I wouldn't use them at all in this situation.

The oil-filed radiant heater will probably work, but I'm not sure it will work in temp below 50 degrees without some copious insulation and sealing. I use the mini version in my night boxes that are sealed and insulted and maintain temps in the 80 when outside temps drop into the 20s or 30s. Like these:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/double-door-night-box.129054/

This style works well for individual sulcatas too:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/

 

[lismar79]

I have a non insulated shed i use well into fall and then mine comes into a basement room until he gets too big to carry. In my shed I have a version of a night box I copied from one of Tom's posts. Oil filled heater blocked off on the side on a thermostat. He gets locked in at night and let out at 7am. I basically didn't want to pay to heat a whole shed so this was the best possible scenario. We are working on hooking up a wood burner that will heat our house Big Barn and our sulcata's shed ( then i will insulate it) but I'm in Ohio so that would be pretty extreme for you I would think

 

[wellington]

Actually, I think @ALDABRAMAN uses red spot light type bulbs to keep his aldabras warm on those few chilly nights. Keep in mind though, his are very large adults.
Hopefully he'll add in here what type the bulbs are.

 

[JD7.62]

The two graze together every day though usually the sulcata is outside the fence. So far the sulcata doesn't even seem to know he is there even though the aldabra follows him around like a puppy dog. I will watch them closely.

As for going over the wall, he hasn't. It's a risk for sure. But I also risked my kid going over the wall and my dog. Both are more important and both were fine. Accidents can happen but one must weigh the pros and cons. I'd rather he have more grazing room and a fence over the wall is simply not an option. I've seen him walk up to the wall, look down and turn around a million times.

I use temp guns for checking temps. I will try the oil filled heater but just wasn't sure if it'd be effective enough. Do you have a link for those mini heaters? I'm not sure that on those really cold nights a regular one will do the trick in the non-insulated shed.

What about humidity? Would a few days of drier air a handful of times a year be ok?

 

[Big Charlie]

I don't think drier air a few days a year would be a problem. Our air is dry all the time. To counteract the dryness, some people put jars of water in their sheds. I don't know if it is very effective.

 

[Hugo's Home]

Here is the link but I think you may need a larger one to heat the whole shed. This heater is also avaliable on the Walmart site

I use this one in a non insulated shed but I built an insulated box inside the shed.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MXEDAV2/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

 

[TechnoCheese]

The two graze together every day though usually the sulcata is outside the fence. So far the sulcata doesn't even seem to know he is there even though the aldabra follows him around like a puppy dog. I will watch them closely.

As for going over the wall, he hasn't. It's a risk for sure. But I also risked my kid going over the wall and my dog. Both are more important and both were fine. Accidents can happen but one must weigh the pros and cons. I'd rather he have more grazing room and a fence over the wall is simply not an option. I've seen him walk up to the wall, look down and turn around a million times.

I use temp guns for checking temps. I will try the oil filled heater but just wasn't sure if it'd be effective enough. Do you have a link for those mini heaters? I'm not sure that on those really cold nights a regular one will do the trick in the non-insulated shed.

What about humidity? Would a few days of drier air a handful of times a year be ok?

The Aldabra following him "like a puppy dog" is a sign of aggression. It is the Aldabra chasing him out of his territory.

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Actually, I think @ALDABRAMAN uses red spot light type bulbs to keep his aldabras warm on those few chilly nights. Keep in mind though, his are very large adults.
Hopefully he'll add in here what type the bulbs are.

~ This works great for us.

 

[JLM]

These are not my species so I can't speak to that. However I wanted to say howdy neighbor. I'm in pace/Milton area so real close to the sound. I have followed @Tom 's nightbox design with the oil filled heater for my redfoot. There are good suggestions here from folks that really know what they are doing. I've been on here over a year and have learned a lot. I hope you stick around! I'd love to meet your torts!

By the way we are expecting 34 degrees on Wednesday so it's not the same as southern Florida for those thinking Florida is warm all over

 

[JD7.62]

We've had an unusually warm early December ...until today....so the torts have been out together all day.

I have yet to see any aggression. My background (before I moved to Florida) is large aggressive freshwater fish like African tiger fish, piranha, stingrays, payara, etc. I am decent at spotting aggression. I also have had fly river turtles which are mean little SOBs. When I said the aldabra follows the sulcata around, that's not aggression. And its not like he does it non stop. I have noticed the aldabra tends to stay relatively close, within several yards, of the sulcata while they are grazing. Besides, not sure what a 25lb aldabra could do to a 70lb sulcata any how.

They both go into the sulcata house together every day around 1500 but I move the aldabra to his shed every night. The sulcata could easily push him out but does not.

I ended up getting the oil filled heater. It's working great on this cold day. This will be his first day in the shed 24hrs. Honestly it looks like he will be in it for a few days.

 

[Tom]

I have yet to see any aggression. My background (before I moved to Florida) is large aggressive freshwater fish like African tiger fish, piranha, stingrays, payara, etc. I am decent at spotting aggression. I also have had fly river turtles which are mean little SOBs. When I said the aldabra follows the sulcata around, that's not aggression. And its not like he does it non stop. I have noticed the aldabra tends to stay relatively close, within several yards, of the sulcata while they are grazing. Besides, not sure what a 25lb aldabra could do to a 70lb sulcata any how.

Ever kept chameleons? Know anyone who does?

Ask them to explain this proximity stress. There does not have to be any contact or overt hostility for this to be a problem. The sight of each other across the yard causes stress. They do not want to share a territory. They are not social animals.

Also, species should never be mixed. Give this a read: http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/mixing.htm


You are headed for a train wreck. We are trying to warn you.

 

[JD7.62]

So you're telling me, no one let's their torts see other torts? I'm fairly certain aldabras are extremely social, for a tortoise. I guess every zoo I've been to that keeps their sullys or aldabras in large groups are doing it wrong. Can you please elaborate on what kind of train wreck I'm in for?

Has no one ever successfully housed a sulcata and an aldabra outdoors in a large (larger than moat zoo displays) pen?

As for mixing the species, that article seems to be more for indoor habitats. Mine are outdoors. I can't exactly control the weather when they are outside. They do have individual sleeping/cold snap housing.

 

[Tom]

So you're telling me, no one let's their torts see other torts? I'm fairly certain aldabras are extremely social, for a tortoise. I guess every zoo I've been to that keeps their sullys or aldabras in large groups are doing it wrong. Can you please elaborate on what kind of train wreck I'm in for?

Has no one ever successfully housed a sulcata and an aldabra outdoors in a large (larger than moat zoo displays) pen?

As for mixing the species, that article seems to be more for indoor habitats. Mine are outdoors. I can't exactly control the weather when they are outside. They do have individual sleeping/cold snap housing.

Groups of the same species are not usually a problem. PAIRS are a problem, and mixing different species is a problem.

Weather has nothing to do with any of this. Different species from different continents evolve the means to deal with the pathogens they are likely to encounter in their area. Introduce different pathogens from a different continent and you can have a catastrophe. Remember Jane Goodall and the chimps? In practice, I have seen many people lose entire collection because of this.

No one is saying that if one of your tortoises catches a glimpse of another tortoise they are going to suddenly drop dead. What I am saying is that living as a pair, and living with a different species creates disease risk and it creates chronic stress. Chronic stress hampers the immune system of any living animal and increases disease potential.

Has anyone done this successfully? Define success. I say no they haven't. Has any one done this and not had the animals die immediately? Probably. I don't know of anyone, but its probably happened. Doesn't mean it should be done and doesn't mean it was good for the two animals involved. I can play russian roulette up to five times and have no problem whatsoever. Doesn't mean I should play it a sixth time.

The bottom line here is that your two animals will be better off and have a better life if you don't have them living together and sharing space. That is all any of us want. To help you and your tortoises. Some people have to learn these things that hard way. I've been keeping turtles and tortoises since the 70s. Professionally since the 80s. I've seen a lot of successes and failures in that time. I've seen a lot of tortoises die because their owners were inexperienced, ignorant, or both, including my own. I have done what you are doing, but I will never do it again. Why do you think that is?

 

[lisa127]

I just want to say that aldabra is beautiful!