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-EJ

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I do have that reference. My spanish sucks but I can get the gist of it.

I also suspect that that the majority agrees with my point.

ChiKat said:
stells said:
You two are scaring me now....

hahaha this made me laugh out loud :D

All I can say is this is all way over my head ;)
 

Murziano

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-EJ said:
I also suspect that that the majority agrees with my point.

Yes, so do I.

I just wanted to mention Enrique Richard's opinion which I very much respect. He rejects petersi but not donobarrosi and he thoroughly explains why. He doesn't seem to be a "tax-ego-nomist" as the majority of them.

I am far from a splitter. In fact I am nobody, but I do have an opinion. :D Maybe subespecies status would be right.

Marcos
 

-EJ

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I just noticed... your last line is quite offensive. While Jim might have been on holiday its purpose was specificly put together to research the Chaco tortoise. He ended up bringing back 12 or so animals... legally. For that to happen it would have had to be very well researched and planned.

Jim Buskirk is one of the best researchers I know... and he is 'just' a hobbiest.

Murziano said:
If you are so interested in Chacos and can read Spanish you should check this:

TORTUGAS DE LAS REGIONES ÁRIDAS DE ARGENTINA (turtles and tortoises from the arid regions of Argentina) by ENRIQUE RICHARD

A masterpice. A lifetime work, not a holinday in Argentina taking pictures and measures of tortoises.

http://www.lola-online.com/

Click "ZOOLOGÍA" and then on "TORTUGA"

He doesn't seem a splitter whatsoever but the guy finds strong ecological, evolutionary and morphological reasons for that.

Regards,
Marcos
 

Murziano

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I didn't mean to be offensive and I wasn't referring to Jim Buskirk. I was talking about splitters. Maybe the problem is that English is not my mother tongue. Think about what Pierh and Peralla are doing with the testudo genus (they just take into account morphometrics)

The have raised every little difference beteween the testudo graeca complex to species status, and now others have to create a new genus for the hermanni group, and in the future someone will have to create a new genus for kleinmanni and marginata. The thing is, if they go on like this, in the end, we will have genera instead of species: testuo= graeca, eurotestudo=hermanni, whatever=kleinmanni&marginata. Why not leaving everything just as it was?

My own taxonomy hihlights similarities between animals rather than the differences. A chaco tortoise is a Chaco tortoise, which is something tou can easily tell apart from a redfoot if you are interested in tortoises, for instance.

The species status Enrique Richard gives to them I think it is too much IMHO. A subespecies status seems more sensible to me, because his reasonings are quite coherent.

My favourite approach I have read about this issue is in "The Sonoran tortoise book". There are two main groups of desert tortoises according to genetics, ecology and distribution in the western US. We don't give a fiddle fart about names.

Marcos
 

-EJ

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I'm not going there... on the greaca.

OMG... you're a splitter...



uote='Murziano' pid='100838' dateline='1263330463']
I didn't mean to be offensive and I wasn't referring to Jim Buskirk. I was talking about splitters. Maybe the problem is that English is not my mother tongue. Think about what Pierh and Peralla are doing with the testudo genus (they just take into account morphometrics)

The have raised every little difference beteween the testudo graeca complex to species status, and now others have to create a new genus for the hermanni group, and in the future someone will have to create a new genus for kleinmanni and marginata. The thing is, if they go on like this, in the end, we will have genera instead of species: testuo= graeca, eurotestudo=hermanni, whatever=kleinmanni&marginata. Why not leaving everything just as it was?

My own taxonomy hihlights similarities between animals rather than the differences. A chaco tortoise is a Chaco tortoise, which is something tou can easily tell apart from a redfoot if you are interested in tortoises, for instance.

The species status Enrique Richard gives to them I think it is too much IMHO. A subespecies status seems more sensible to me, because his reasonings are quite coherent.

My favourite approach I have read about this issue is in "The Sonoran tortoise book". There are two main groups of desert tortoises according to genetics, ecology and distribution in the western US. We don't give a fiddle fart about names.

Marcos
[/quote]
 
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