They're forcing my hand...

[Tom]

I've used old fridges unplugged and on their backs. I took a ball point pen apart and closed the tube part in the door. It worked for me, but I probably did not need to do it. My hibernation temps in those fridges stayed 50-55 all winter, but now I'm learning that it probably should have been cooler. Still, I never had any problems.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

After at least 2 weeks of fasting at an ambient temperature of 60°F, I put our steppe tortoises into their hibernaculum this morning: a shoe box filled with moist coco coir, in a mini-fridge set to a constant 40°F. Here are the pix:

I will be opening their door weekly to refresh their air supply and check in on them. Other than that, I guess we won't be seeing them for a while. Considering their behavior (staying buried and not feeding), should I expect to let them brumate for 5 months as they would in the wild, and not take them out until April?

 

[lynnedit]

Thanks for posting this thread and the pics. I am learning as well.
It does seem that many hibernate their torts for shorter periods, average 6-12 weeks, unless they have the outside conditions to let it happen naturally. With fridge hibernation, I guess it depends on how their weight does in hibernation; how stable it is, etc.
I will be interested to hear what others say.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Hibernation update:
This afternoon, as I lay on the couch for a nap, I heard my tortoises digging inside the fridge. "No big deal," I thought, "probably just getting comfortable, as the temperature should still be 40°F." (Never mind the creepy resemblance to tales of people clawing to get out of their coffins; that's just superficial.) Anyway, an hour later I awoke from my nape to a strange sound coming from the mini-fridge upstairs. "Hmm," I thought, "probably nothing, but worth checking out."

Well, when I got upstairs I found the mini-fridge door flung wide open! Could it be the tortoises wanted out?! No, it just turns out that turtles are even stronger than I thought! In his digging, the male simply busted out the backside of the shoe box (which had gotten a bit soft from the moist coco coir), and kept pushing and pushing until he popped the door open! I don't think much time had passed, because it was still relatively cool in there (about 60°F, when our house was 72°F), so he probably did it while I was napping.

Not to worry, though. They were both fine. I simply threw out the old shoe box and replaced it with a plastic pet carrier of about the same size. Now they are both in that instead, and this time, I don't think they will be busting through anything ... I hope. And if they do, then guess what? They will have to wait until we have a backyard to brumate, because unless the crisper of our people-fridge will do, that's the only option we have right now.

I had used the cardboard shoe box because I had read that it is good for absorbing excess moisture, keeping the brumating turtles dry, etc. But forget that, man. Looks like the container has got to be plastic, or else it simply might not last!

 

[lynnedit]

Their strength and determination never ceases to surprise med.
Guess he was just trying to get comfy!
Amazing story.

 

[Tom]

GB would be a better person to ask, but I always gave my hibernating animals two weeks at normal temps to clear them out. I usually gradually shorten the basking hours from 12 dow to 4 or so, during that time AND I do daily warm soaks to help move things along and make sure they are hydrated before their winter slumber. I also hibernated them on dry substrate only. Don't know how critical these things are for russians. Others have much more experience at it than me.

 

[GBtortoises]

I don't recall if I mentioned it previously in this thread or one a while ago, but I had some Russians, one female in particular, that despite being brumated at 38-40 degrees in a refrigerator, never actually "went to sleep". Everytime I checked them, and her in particular, I'd open the box top to find her staring up at me, eyes wide open!

When I brumate them artifically indoors I do basically the same process as Tom describes above. The difference is that after about two weeks I move them from normal activity temperatures into large plastic totes full of leaves in unheated garage for another 10-14 days. The daytime temperatures are in the mid 40's to very low 50's during the daytime and high 30's to low 40's at night. Once they all dig into the leaves I remove each and place them in seperate individual purpose built wooden boxes with sliding tops. I have used various substrates in the hibernation boxes with fairly equal sucess. In the past I have used leaves, semi-dry sphagnum moss, straw, shredded newspaper and styrofoam packing peanuts. Obviously, some of those substrates are better at holding moisture content than others. I think the tortoises that have some level of moisture present have come out of brumation in better shape than those that I've kept drier. Mine that brumate outdoors usually come out with either condensation or mud on them and feel nearly as heavy as when they began brumation. Indoors I've noticed a definite weight loss but not nearly as much with those that are afforded some substrate moisture or increased air humidity during brumation.

I'm not sure how critical humidity levels are during brumation. They must have some role in order to keep tortoises from dehydrating, but I'm not really sure how one would go about figuring out just what levels of humidity and moisture content are necessary.

 

[Tom]

Always something to learn here. Love it. Thanks GB. I always did it dry to ensure that I didn't have respiratory problems. By sheer numbers, I have hibernated CDT's more than anything else and URTIs are always a concern with them. I have an adult tegu hibernating outside right now. He's got some humidity in his man made 36" deep burrow, so I'll be curious to see how he does outdoors this year.

 

[CactusVinnie]

Hi, Gaddy!

I just saw now your topic. Here is my opinion.
It may be not enough to have them at 15*C for 2 weeks. They had to spend more, from normal regime (even at 15*C, but with basking spot) with gradually reducing the basking bulb time down to 4 hours, let,s say. After that, you can let them at 10*C for another week, with 4 hours of basking, then 2 hours, then no basking at 10*C. Following a kind of autumn, gradually reducing light and heat

Below, one scheme that I followed- all after fasting beginns. Animals about 300g.
week 1: normal room temps (18-20*C), basking 8 hours; one bath- water at 25*C, 15', at their peak activity (not daily, the bath was one/week!)
week 2: 15*C, basking 5 hours; one bath- water at 25*C, at peak activity.
week 3: 10*C, basking 3 hours; one bath at 25*C, at peak activity.
week 4: 10*C, no basking- no bath.
week 5+6: in attic, 5-8*C.
Then fridge, stabilised at 5*C.

You can skip weeks 5+6, they were anyway kind of a fridge regime. It was only a 6 week hibernation, because I received them at end September- usually many recommend overwintering, but I still wanted to offer them a resting period, to reset their system, without the risk of a full hibernation. Now, I know that they could have more, but I played safe.
I kept them totally dry, but the short time spent implied not much of a dehidration danger. Just a very, very slightly moist substrate will do perfect, be it only from covering them totally. They can take dry, they can take a little moisture, but better to keep things as in habitat- not too moist, usually.
Here, E. boettgeri and even T. ibera endure even muddy borrows sometimes, esp. boettgeri - wich lives only in the Balkans, with 600-800mm/year in most places, but better not try this with A.horsfieldi.
Even if GB allows that, he has the "eye" and the "touch" from longtime experience. We beginners have to play safe, by the book, then after some time, we will feel what the limits are for our tortoises. So just very little moisture, just a little less then the amount that makes garden soil "workable"- not dry, not sticky to the tools.

If yours eliminated at least 2 stools since fasting beginns, I think it is ok- they never have empty guts in hibernation, unless we force them to, by bathing- wich is quite unnatural, especially when done daily (!!!). Many tortoises eliminate dry stools after hibernation- they just suck up all the moisture from them; esp. if the environment is dry, they wolud not waste the water letting it to bacteria, to fermentate the food LOL!
A full stomach and then into the fridge is another thing, I suppose done by totally ignorant beginner, who knows about hibernation, but don't know how to prepare the animal.

Keep us with fresh news!

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Thanks for the tips, everyone!
Well, as I said, Mork and Mindy are brumating in their mini-fridge now. And with their plastic carrier, they are staying put.

My only question now is, should I hibernate them all the way until April? If less than that, when should I take them out?

 

[CactusVinnie]

I think it will not be the case, if all will be ok- and again I don't see why not.
Last year, my new imports that I put into a short hibernation were able to take a 4 months one, if I would have started it earlier- and they had not a good year (no growth at all). Those 6 weeks ended on March 26, because I delayed the process as much as I was able to. Yours surely are more fit than were mines, after an ugly year, spent most in the pet-transit in far from proper conditions...