Third impaction from substrate

Joma

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Oct 21, 2018
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Taos, NM
I'm not yet sure if this is an impaction (it would be his third). However, his behavior indicates it is likely. The last two eventually passed after approx two weeks. Both were from ingesting substrate. One was a large piece of cypress mulch the other a also some kind of stick. It has been three days since he last passed anything. I will increase his soaks and monitor. Last time it took approx two weeks to pass the stick. Hopefully he is able to do so this time.

My question is: I need a viable alternative substrate for his indoor enclosure. He is a five year old Greek tort. Currently he has a mixture of coco coir and cypress mulch. I have tried just the coco coir and it was a complete mess so I added the mulch for stability (it's still pretty darn messy). I have also made his eating area very large so he doesn't drag food around and try to eat it off the substrate. I'm temped to go completely fake with eco carpet, except in his hide/ sleeping area where I would keep the coco coir for burying. Or would a sand/dirt mixture be better? I need some ideas as worrying about him being impacted is very stressful - I have seen the impactions after they pass. I am surprised he was able to do so and worry that the next time will be the last.
 

Tom

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How and why is he eating substrate to this degree? Most don't. Is he doing it intentionally, or is it sticking to his food, or is he grabbing some with the food. Substrate eating can indicate a mineral or fiber deficiency, which is common with tortoises that are fed mostly grocery store greens without substantial amending.

Sand is the biggest impaction risk there is, and bought in a bag soil should never be used since you can't know what composted material it is made of, and it could be something toxic.

I don't care for cypress mulch because of the large sharp pieces and also because it smells like the swamp that it came from.

I don't use coco coir for anything but Testudo or DT babies because of the mess. If you hand pack it down, it will settle in and become less messy after two weeks. Not sure if this would work if you are using it in a mixture with something else.

Fine grade orchid bark works best and has none of these problems.
 

Joma

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Location (City and/or State)
Taos, NM
How and why is he eating substrate to this degree? Most don't. Is he doing it intentionally, or is it sticking to his food, or is he grabbing some with the food. Substrate eating can indicate a mineral or fiber deficiency, which is common with tortoises that are fed mostly grocery store greens without substantial amending.

Sand is the biggest impaction risk there is, and bought in a bag soil should never be used since you can't know what composted material it is made of, and it could be something toxic.

I don't care for cypress mulch because of the large sharp pieces and also because it smells like the swamp that it came from.

I don't use coco coir for anything but Testudo or DT babies because of the mess. If you hand pack it down, it will settle in and become less messy after two weeks. Not sure if this would work if you are using it in a mixture with something else.

Fine grade orchid bark works best and has none of these problems.

i have not witnessed him intentionally trying to eat the substrate. And I watch him frequently. I guess it’s inadvertent- perhaps when he thinks there is food there or there actually is a piece of food that causes him to aim for the food but get the substrate?? As it’s winter, I’m currently growing 7 pots of weeds in my house. Mostly dandelion, plantain and clover. Aside from mazuri and occasionally calcium and vitamin supplements that is what he is being fed. In the summer he has an outdoor enclosure with weeds and I collect all sorts of other kinds for him (lots of variety). I don’t think it’s a dietary issue. I think it’s s substrate problem....Frankly, .I also, at times, wonder how the heck his species actually survive for any length of time in the wild ??‍♀️ From what I can tell, his digestive tract only works in one direction. And once it’s in his mouth, it rarely goes in any direction except right on through....hopefully! I love the kiddo but he seems somewhat maladaptive in this regard. Given my short experience with him (I’ve only had him a year) I’m surprised that this problem seems uncommon. I’ve looked for orchid bark in my town and have not found it. I’ll look again. I’m guessing you think the carpet is a crappy idea despite these challenges?
 

Sue Ann

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chapin , South Carolina
I'm not yet sure if this is an impaction (it would be his third). However, his behavior indicates it is likely. The last two eventually passed after approx two weeks. Both were from ingesting substrate. One was a large piece of cypress mulch the other a also some kind of stick. It has been three days since he last passed anything. I will increase his soaks and monitor. Last time it took approx two weeks to pass the stick. Hopefully he is able to do so this time.

My question is: I need a viable alternative substrate for his indoor enclosure. He is a five year old Greek tort. Currently he has a mixture of coco coir and cypress mulch. I have tried just the coco coir and it was a complete mess so I added the mulch for stability (it's still pretty darn messy). I have also made his eating area very large so he doesn't drag food around and try to eat it off the substrate. I'm temped to go completely fake with eco carpet, except in his hide/ sleeping area where I would keep the coco coir for burying. Or would a sand/dirt mixture be better? I need some ideas as worrying about him being impacted is very stressful - I have seen the impactions after they pass. I am surprised he was able to do so and worry that the next time will be the last.
I use orchid bark from Amazon works great
 

Tom

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i have not witnessed him intentionally trying to eat the substrate. And I watch him frequently. I guess it’s inadvertent- perhaps when he thinks there is food there or there actually is a piece of food that causes him to aim for the food but get the substrate?? As it’s winter, I’m currently growing 7 pots of weeds in my house. Mostly dandelion, plantain and clover. Aside from mazuri and occasionally calcium and vitamin supplements that is what he is being fed. In the summer he has an outdoor enclosure with weeds and I collect all sorts of other kinds for him (lots of variety). I don’t think it’s a dietary issue. I think it’s s substrate problem....Frankly, .I also, at times, wonder how the heck his species actually survive for any length of time in the wild ??‍♀️ From what I can tell, his digestive tract only works in one direction. And once it’s in his mouth, it rarely goes in any direction except right on through....hopefully! I love the kiddo but he seems somewhat maladaptive in this regard. Given my short experience with him (I’ve only had him a year) I’m surprised that this problem seems uncommon. I’ve looked for orchid bark in my town and have not found it. I’ll look again. I’m guessing you think the carpet is a crappy idea despite these challenges?
My main issues with carpet are that it is too dry and can't be kept damp as is needed, I've seen fibers wrapped around the foot of many a reptile, and some try to eat it.
 

Blackdog1714

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Check online for ReptiBark - it is fine fir bark. Sadly it is about $15 a 24 quart bag. @Tom can buy a 2 cubic foot bag (mulch bag) at garden stores for around $20- Huge price break, but it is a very Cali thing. On the east coast it is ReptiBark that is cheaper-apparanently shipping a bag of mulch is very expensive.
 

Joma

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Taos, NM
Check online for ReptiBark - it is fine fir bark. Sadly it is about $15 a 24 quart bag. @Tom can buy a 2 cubic foot bag (mulch bag) at garden stores for around $20- Huge price break, but it is a very Cali thing. On the east coast it is ReptiBark that is cheaper-apparanently shipping a bag of mulch is very expensive.

Thx I’ll look to see what I can get online today and hope he passes what he’s eaten
 

Yvonne G

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Are you using a red light for heat? Some tortoises eat substrate because the red light makes it look like food.

If he's eating it because he needs minerals, You can supplement with a product called Miner-All. It's manufactured by Sticky Tongue Farms.
 

Tom

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Check online for ReptiBark - it is fine fir bark. Sadly it is about $15 a 24 quart bag. @Tom can buy a 2 cubic foot bag (mulch bag) at garden stores for around $20- Huge price break, but it is a very Cali thing. On the east coast it is ReptiBark that is cheaper-apparanently shipping a bag of mulch is very expensive.
Minor correction: I get the 2.0 cubic foot bags here for $10.99 plus tax, which works out to about $12 a bag.

For @Joma People in your area grow hot house orchids. They have to be getting orchid bark from somewhere. There must be a local garden center around you that can order it if they don't already have it.

Look for, or have your garden center look for: "E.B. Stone", or "Stone Organics".


Here is the one I've been using for several years now:
MicroBark_big.jpg
 

Joma

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Oct 21, 2018
Messages
102
Location (City and/or State)
Taos, NM
Are you using a red light for heat? Some tortoises eat substrate because the red light makes it look like food.

If he's eating it because he needs minerals, You can supplement with a product called Miner-All. It's manufactured by Sticky Tongue Farms.
No red light. Thx I’ll pick up that supplement.
 

Blackdog1714

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Minor correction: I get the 2.0 cubic foot bags here for $10.99 plus tax, which works out to about $12 a bag.

For @Joma People in your area grow hot house orchids. They have to be getting orchid bark from somewhere. There must be a local garden center around you that can order it if they don't already have it.

Look for, or have your garden center look for: "E.B. Stone", or "Stone Organics".


Here is the one I've been using for several years now:
View attachment 287319;)
Oh now you are rubbing it in!
 

Joma

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Oct 21, 2018
Messages
102
Location (City and/or State)
Taos, NM
Short update. He finally pooped and there does not appear to be an impaction so that’s good news. I think I over reacted to what appeared to be similar symptoms from the previous two impactions. And then I also remembered that he slowed down a fair amount around the same time last year - probably due to the sun being higher in the sky and not shining in his enclosure so much as well as the ambient temps still being slightly lower.

Anyhow. I’m still going to change the substrate so it becomes a non stressor lol. Thx for the suggestions.
 

Sue Ann

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436
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chapin , South Carolina
Can you please send me a link? I’ll order it today.
Just type in orchid bark and order the small. I’m very pleased with it. Holds moisture but does not get moldy and have been using it for my Sulcata baby for a year with no problems.
 
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