tortoise-eye infection

[lawlessangel76]

hello i am not sure how to use this website but i need help i took my ornate box tortoise to the vet on friday may 01 his eyes were totally shut and he was very lethargic the vet said he has a vitamin A deficiency and gave him a shot of vitamin A and sent me home with three more oral injections to give him but since friday he has not moved he is still blind he has not eaten anything since thursday if i touch his head or paw he does have lightning fast reflexes to pull his head or paw in but i am so scared for him i am a huge turtle/tortoise lover i have been crying since friday i have not left his side except to go to the bathroom or get something to eat i also have a red ear slider she is about 7 years old they both have free roam of the house except when the red ear slider eats then she goes in the bathtub her name is jayde and my poor sick little guy his name is hunter i have lost 5 other red ear sliders and my gopher tortoise who was a baby they have all died and it has taken alot out of me and my fiance david we have been together for 17 years and over the years our love for turtle/tortoises has grown we don't want to lose hunter also hunter since he has been sick he sleeps next to me in his favorite red fleece blanket and every hour i put him in a huge tote and try to sprinkle some luke warm water on him and then put a warm washcloth of water on him for about a half an hour so he can absorb some water into him and not dehydrate can someone tell me if i am helping him or am i hurting him with what i am doing for him and does anyone know how long it will take him to open his eyes or move or even eat he was abused before i got him and we try to pamper him as much as we can i have had him for 4 years but he looks really old poor little guy if someone could help that would be great if anyone wants to personally email [email protected]....thank you shanti and david

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Shanti: Its too bad you didn't find our forum years ago before you lost your other turtles and tortoises. I'm going to tell you some pretty tough stuff, but please don't be offended, as I only have the best interest of your turtles at heart. I don't mean to hurt your feelings, and I'm VERY HAPPY that you have joined the forum. Please read below with an open mind and realize I'm not being mean to you:

If you don't have a yard for your turtles, or can't afford to set up an indoor habitat with the correct UVB lighting and heat, you should NOT have a turtle or tortoise. In the first place, a red ear slider is a semi-aquatic turtle and spends the majority of its time IN THE WATER! Not roaming around the house on dry land. They need to be able to bring their body temperature up to at least 80 degrees in order to digest their food. So a water turtle will eat in the water, then go up on his docking platform, which is situated under a light, to warm up and digest his food.

Your box turtle is in the same situation. When they don't eat, the first thing you notice is that they seem to keep their eyes shut. Eventually the eyes stick shut and can only be opened if you soak the turtle. If your box turtle had been eating a diet high in Vit. A it wouldn't have become deficient in this vitamin. BUT they won't eat if they know they aren't going to be able to warm up to 80 degrees in order to digest their food. When they don't eat, your turtle's condition is the result.

My recommendation: Set up an indoor habitat with a light at one end and a hiding place. Soak the turtle every day in Gerber baby food either squash, carrots or sweet potatoes mixed half and half with water. Soak the turtle for at least a half hour. Don't make the mixture too deep so that the turtle can keep his head above the water comfortably. But the most important thing is to warm that turtle up and don't allow him to roam the house any more! Position your light so that the temp under the light is close to 100 degrees. That means that around the edge of the light is 90...then 80, etc. If you have to cover the habitat to keep the heat inside, then cover it.

I would not give the turtle any more Vit.A, as an overdose might cause the turtle's skin to slough off. Just soak him every day in the warm baby food/water mixture, keep him warm in is habitat and in three or four days you should start to see an improvement.

I'm sorry if I came down on you kinda' hard, but this turtle is going to die if you don't make some changes.

Yvonne

 

[Maggie Cummings]

OK...you're not going to like this and please don't think I am being mean because I only intend to help you and your animals.
The turtles and tortoises are dying because you are not taking care of them properly. RES are water turtles and need to be in a pond or aquarium with water. It is NOT normal or right that they should be wandering around your house. People live in houses not water turtles. He can only eat in water and I am surprised (and it is a testament to how hardy ) that the slider has lived this long.
Your box turtles belongs in a habitat (box) with basking (UVB) lights a soaking dish and a hide to sleep in. He needs substrate to dig down in. He needs to be kept at 95 degrees. His metabolism can only process food if it's at 95 degrees. That means that his organs and insides need to be at 95 degrees. They go sit under a hot light and that makes them get warm, the hot light makes their metabolism work. Without those lights they die. Don't you realize after all those animals died that YOU are doing something wrong? Animal after animal has died and it is YOUR lack of care that has killed them. They cannot be kept like a dog or a cat. They have certain requirements that MUST be met or they die. You simply cannot have them walking around your house. So you asked for help and I am hoping that you have read what I have just now said, and you understand that I am not trying to hurt you or be mean, but you need to understand that they simply cannot live the way you are keeping them. You need to get that RES in an aquarium with a basking light and a dock to get up on to bask. Then you need to get that box turtle set up in a box or tub with substrate, a light, a hide and a soaking dish...NOT wandering around your house. Please listen to what I am trying to tell you so that you don't have anymore animals die...

 

[lawlessangel76]

um first of all i understand and respect every ones reply but to the lady that said i killed the other turtles i didn't i kept them all in tanks with the proper light and water temperature and the tortoise was in a garden type housing outside that my brother in law built for him but that was in a house and then i had to move to an apartment and that was about 1 month ago and yes lack of money and space they suffer but i don't appreciate anyone telling me that i purposely killed them i know i have lacked alot and i am not blaming anyone but me i live off of social security disability and i am trying my best but i am not gonna just let them go cause i have a lack of money or i get sick often due to my diabetes i take care of them better than anyone who has a bay newborn child and i am not treating them like a cat or dog first of all i hate cats yes i did ask for help and my red ear slider is in the water most of the time i have a 2 bedroom 2 bath and she gets the extra bath with a basking light and she has a little dock my brother in law also made for her but thank you to the lady that said i should put him in baby food so i should just open the baby food and put it in a bowl and put him in the baby food do i mix it with water cause he can't sit in water by himself and i am gonna make the tortoise a digging substarte type home but i am not gonna let anyone make me feel bad and tell me that i killed anyone or anything cause i can tell you what i see enough people around here and anyone else abusing their pets thats why i took hunter in the first place because he was being abused

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I am sorry if you got offended by anything I said. BUT...it seems to me your animals are constantly dying, and it is because they lack proper care. I in no way meant that you were killing them on purpose. But you are killing them because they are not getting the proper care.
Your excuses don't wash with me. I also am on Social Security Disability...yet my animals don't suffer for lack of proper care and they don't die because I'm on disability.
I will not post on this thread again because I am not going to argue with you. but if you aren't going to follow asked for advice you should not ask for it.

 

[Yvonne G]

I am also retired and on a fixed income. But my animals always come first where the money is concerned. I would sooner find them new and better homes, if I felt they were not receiving the proper care here with me.

When soaking in the baby food/water mixture, you get a small bowl or container with tall sides but a small bottom so that you don't need too much water. Then you put about a half a jar of the baby food in the bowl and add enough warm water to bring the level up to the sides of the turtle. Leave him sitting in the water for about a half hour.

You said in your original post that you were spraying with water or covering with a damp cloth. This isn't good enough. In the wild box turtles wade into the shallow water of a pond or stream and sit there and drink and soak. So soaking is much better for the turtle than a damp cloth.

Please don't be offended by what we are telling you. And don't make excuses for yourself. Just read our advice with an open mind and try to do better for your turtle.

Yvonne

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Please read these care sheets so you can see how to take care of your turtle. I see Yvonne has told you how to give a babyfood soak...so read these and see if you can't improve on the care of the box turtle...

http://www.anapsid.org/box.html

http://aboxturtle.com/

 

[lawlessangel76]

ok i believe one of you told me to not give him anymore vitamin a shots these were given to me by the vet to be taken on friday for the next three weeks so i should just stop that cause the vet recommeneded that i don't and as of now she is the one with the medical degree unless one of you happens to be a vet and i think you understood me wrong when i said i was misting him with water i meant as of now while he is sick i am doing that cause i don't want to leave him alone in his water bowl but he has always had a water bowl to soak just so every one knows that he eats zoo med box tortoise dry food along with his worms and assortment of fruit he has always had proper lighting the vet said the only thing i was lacking was giving him romaine lettuce,tomatoes,sweet potatoes and carrots you when you go to 10 different websites and everyone is telling you to do something different you don't know what to do also i got him the baby food he is sitting in it he is in the sweet potatoes can i mix the foods together and does the baby food have to be gerber and you said earlier that since his eyes have been shut for awhile the only way for him to open them would be to soak them in water i have been trying to do that how much water should i try to put on his eyes without drowning him and you said to sit him in the baby food should i put some of the baby food on his back and i know this sounds stupid should i try to put some of the food on his eyes

 

[Maggie Cummings]

you need to be a little more respectful. You should reread what Yvonne told you to do.

 

[Yvonne G]

No, there's no need to put it on his back or on his eyes. If you put him into a bowl or some sort of container that has high sides that he can't climb out of, then put the water/baby food mixture so that it comes halfway up his shell, but not so deep that he has to struggle to keep his head above the water. Just the fact that he is sitting in water will help get his eyes open. The water doesn't actually have to get up to his eyes. There is no need to mix the baby food together. I just gave you a couple different flavors to choose from. The sweet potatoes, carrots and squash have the most vitamin A of all the baby foods, and that's why I named those three. But don't mix them. And any brand of baby food will be fine.

No, I don't have a medical degree, but I've been operating a turtle and tortoise rescue for over 30 years and I've seen many, many turtles with big raw patches on their skin because of vitamin A injections.

Good luck getting your little turtle back to health. Sorry I've been misunderstanding you. Sometimes its hard to get at the whole story from just one post.

YVonne





[quote='lawlessangel76' pid='58027' dateline='1241392401']
ok i believe one of you told me to not give him anymore vitamin a shots these were given to me by the vet to be taken on friday for the next three weeks so i should just stop that cause the vet recommeneded that i don't and as of now she is the one with the medical degree unless one of you happens to be a vet and i think you understood me wrong when i said i was misting him with water i meant as of now while he is sick i am doing that cause i don't want to leave him alone in his water bowl but he has always had a water bowl to soak just so every one knows that he eats zoo med box tortoise dry food along with his worms and assortment of fruit he has always had proper lighting the vet said the only thing i was lacking was giving him romaine lettuce,tomatoes,sweet potatoes and carrots you when you go to 10 different websites and everyone is telling you to do something different you don't know what to do also i got him the baby food he is sitting in it he is in the sweet potatoes can i mix the foods together and does the baby food have to be gerber and you said earlier that since his eyes have been shut for awhile the only way for him to open them would be to soak them in water i have been trying to do that how much water should i try to put on his eyes without drowning him and you said to sit him in the baby food should i put some of the baby food on his back and i know this sounds stupid should i try to put some of the food on his eyes
[/quote]

 

[lawlessangel76]

yvonne if i may call you by your first name i am sorry if i have been disrespecting you i am 32 and i am just defensive by nature about everything this my last post i am sorry i keep bothering you i don't know what time you go to bed it's 9:41 p.m here i live in florida i think thats great what you do for these wonderful lttle guys and girls you can ask anyone i know that has always been my dream if i win the lottery to get a huge piece of property and rescue as many turtles/tortoises that i could and of course have a vet that lives on the grounds i don't want no big sports car or nice clothes or big house i wish i could help the sea turtles that get caught in nets and get the hooks in their mouths i use to live where was this big lake and all these water turtles that would come out when people would feed them bread and this one had a hook in it's mouth and i actually ran into a guy that thought it was funny and he said the stupid primortial thing deserved it excuse my language but i just wanted shoot him and make him go through what the turtle was going through he said oh the hook will just fall out and then said it didn't matter the gators were gonna get him anyways..i just wanted to apolagize if i was being disrespectful i hope that i can continue to talk with you sorry i have a few more questions should hunter try to drink the mixture should i reuse the mixture and how long do you think until his eyes will open

 

[Yvonne G]

i have a few more questions should hunter try to drink the mixture should i reuse the mixture and how long do you think until his eyes will open

It doesn't matter if he drinks it or not, as they absorb some of the nutrients through the thin skin under their throat and the thin skin under their tail.

Don't re-use it. Toss it down the drain.

If you soak him every day for about a half hour each time, you should see some improvement in 3 or 4 days.

Yvonne

 

[lawlessangel76]

thanks yvonne he seems to be putting his head down to smell it and then he picks his head up and seesaws it back and forth in and out of his shell now while he's soaking i have him under a 75 watt uvb light is that too high or does he need more

 

[Yvonne G]

Just don't let the light shine directly on him, or it would be too hot.

Yvonne

 

[lawlessangel76]

yvonne i am so sorry to keep bothering you i just took him out of his squash bath i did sweet potatoes yesterday and one of his eyes is actally open a little bit i was so happy i cried and i know your not suppose to i gave him a little kiss on his back as of now i just have him soaking in warm water now when i put my res in water i have to add this blu liquid too the water to take the chloramines and chlorine out it's called repti safe and it's made by zoo med when i soak him in just water should i put this stuff in his water i did before just because i knew he would be soaking and drinking the water and how long should i leave the light on him my res's light is 12 hours and i also checked out your website they are all beautiful and i also wanted to ask can i soak him in other baby food like bananas,peaches,or any of the veggies sorry my sister just had a baby and she is eating solids now so instaed of throwing it away i told her i would take it if i could use it i also heard that when they don't eat their dry food sometimes you can put it in applesause can he soak in applesauce and how long until i can put him on his regular diet the vet told me mainly kale,romaine lettuce,tomatoes,sweetpotatoes,and strawberries and of course his worms which he loves their medium sized meal worms and should i throw away his vitamin a injections the vet gave me

 

[Yvonne G]

I don't know anything about using the Repti-safe, so I can't answer that question for you.

When he's not soaking, he should be back in his habitat, and you should keep the light on in the habitat for 12 hours a day.

No, the only reason you are soaking in baby food/water is so that the tortoise can absorb some of the vitamin A from the baby food. The three flavors I listed for you have the highest Vitamin A content. If you want to use your sister's baby food, you can add a bit of it on top of the turtles regular food. It won't harm him and it might even make him want to eat it better. You can soak the dry food in the other baby foods from your sister.

He won't start eating on his own until his eyes open and stay open. So when both the eyes are open, you can start offering him his regular food.

Here is a list of things that are good to feed your box turtle (From Tess Cook's site):

PROTEIN makes up about 50% of the diet. Protein foods should be cut up small enough so the turtle cannot get its fill of food with just one bite of protein. Mix the protein with the vegetables and fruits. All muscle meats should be sprinkled with calcium supplement that contains no phosphorus. Cuttlebone given to birds may also be shaved onto food stuff and left in the turtle's home so the turtle can forage on it at will. It is high in calcium and other trace minerals and should always be available to box turtles.

Use regularly—Natural live, whole foods like pesticide free earthworms, slugs, waxworms, beetles, grubs, sow bugs. Boiled, chopped chicken, feeder fish or beef heart.
Occasionally—Low-fat soaked dog kibble, soaked puppy Milkbones�, low-fat premium canned dog food, cooked lean steak, mealworms and crickets that have been gutloaded on dark greens, Prepared box turtle food products.
Less frequently�Pinky mice, boiled egg, tofu, low-fat cat kibble.
Never—Due to the possibility of contamination, fat content and salt: raw meats, fatty meats or processed meats.

VEGETABLES make up about 30% of the diet. Use the part of the vegetable that is colorful as it contains the most nutrition. Use fresh vegetables whenever possible and steam or grate hard vegetables before offering to the box turtle.

Use regularly—Summer and winter squashes, peas in the pod, sweet potatoes, okra, grated carrots, green beans, wax beans and cactus pads with all spines removed.
Occasionally—Mushrooms of all types, corn on the cob and tomatoes.
Less frequently—Bean sprouts, broccoli, cabbage, beets and cauliflower.
Never—Avocado peel.

LEAFY DARK GREENS make up 10% of the diet. Dark leafy greens contain fiber and many minerals and vitamins. Greens help keep the turtle gut healthy through their cleansing action. Always provide your turtles with greens.

Use regularly—Collard greens, mustard greens, dandelion greens, romaine, wheat grass and turnip greens.
Occasionally—Red leaf lettuce, endive, parsley, kale and Swiss chard.
Less frequently—Iceberg lettuce and spinach.
Never�Rhubarb, potato and tobacco leaves.

FRUITS make up the remaining 10% of the diet and are dessert for your turtles. Most turtles love fruits and each seems to have a favorite. Try to find your turtle’s favorite. If it is a finicky eater, use the fruit to entice it to eat other foods. Chop the favorite fruit into small pieces and mix it with things the turtle should eat but won’t. This way, with every bite of fruit it will also eat the required food. I sprinkle vitamins on the fruit as well.

REGULARLY—Grapes, apples, fresh figs, blackberries, raspberries, mulberries, peaches, crabapples, strawberries, cantaloupe, kiwis, cherries and persimmons, banana and most other fruits.

I can't tell you to toss the medication your vet gave you, however, if it were me, I would not use it anymore.

Yvonne

 

[lawlessangel76]

hi yvonne i hope you don't mind me writing to you again i just wanted to let you know that both of hunter's eyes are open and he is eating solids i started off with some kiwi and romaine lettuce and sweet potatoe and carrots he's doing alot better he's actually running around he won't sit still thank you for all your advice my vet also called today and wanted to know how he was doing and reminded me his oral vitamin a injection was due on friday and i told her that i met a real helpful person on the internet who suggested to soak him in baby food and i think thats what brought him around and she said to me that many pets have died due to peoples advice on the intenet but i trust you and i told her that and i do trust your advice so do you think i should at least give him one more injection on friday or no what ever advice you give to me i will follow you suggested the baby food and brought hunter around and he is living and has opened his eyes due to your advice oh by the way tomorrow is hunter's birthday

 

[Maggie Cummings]

While I would agree with that Vet saying that a lot of tortoises and turtles have died due to bad information passed around on the Internet just as many have died due to crappy treatment from incompetent veterinarians who are not open minded enough to see when something works. Yvonne has given you good advice since your very first post. I would not use anymore injections of Vit A. You are going to end up with a turtle who's skin is sloughing off due to over dosing with that stuff and the injections will create necrotic tissue at the injection site...but I am slightly confused because you are saying oral injections of Vit A. 'oral' means by mouth, injection means under the skin or into the body...which is it?

 

[desertsss]

So happy to hear your baby is doing better. These two ladies have very good advice. If you have seen an improvement with the steps you have taken from Yvonne and maggie it would seem unnecessary to continue injections, oral or otherwise. If he is getting the Vitamin A from the baby food you don't want to give him too much by using the meds from the vet as well.
Also, if you check out the enclosure section of the forum you could get some great (and some inexpensive) ideas for both tortoise and turtle homes within your means. A lot of them are absolutely beautiful.
Good luck and hope to see you post some more.

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm happy to hear that your little guy seems to be doing better. If it were my animal, I WOULD NOT give it any oral vitamin A, but that's between you and your vet.

Yvonne