Tortoise having a nervous breakdown???

[MangoDiva]

One of my torts has been pacing quickly back and forth all week in his enclosure. He has always been the more curious and active tort of the two I have. However, he has really started at it like never before. Almost like he is in a race. I'm wondering now if he is freaking out - I know that sounds funny. But as he paces quickly back and forth at the front of the glass enclosure, he paws at the glass like he is trying to get out. You can hear his shell hitting up against the glass - not really hard but you hear it constantly. Its like he is having a nervous breakdown. When I come over to him he stops and just stares at me. I almost feel like he is saying, "Lady get me outta here!"

Advice please!

 

[Maro2Bear]

Mango

It would help if you could provide more details on your tortoise, size, enclosure type, lighting, etc. a quick pix of your set-up and your tort will help folks provide some input. Too bright, too small of enclosure, too hot?

 

[christinaland128]

Some people suggest putting a border along the bottom so they can't see out.

 

[Tom]

What species and size? What size enclosure?

Are you sure its a male? It might want out more than normal because of the onset of spring and its breeding time.

 

[MangoDiva]

Mango

It would help if you could provide more details on your tortoise, size, enclosure type, lighting, etc. a quick pix of your set-up and your tort will help folks provide some input. Too bright, too small of enclosure, too hot?

Its a 40 gal glass enclosure. Substrate is mix of repti bark and coco coir. Warm side is around 87 - 88 degrees on average and cool side is around 72 on average. Russian tortoise approx 5" long and 5" wide. I've attached a pic of him in the enclosure.

 

[MangoDiva]

What species and size? What size enclosure?

Are you sure its a male? It might want out more than normal because of the onset of spring and its breeding time.

Russians. 5". I was told from posting pics of him and the other that they are two males. I originally thought one was male and one was female.

 

[Maro2Bear]

So, are there two Russians in there? Or just the nervous one?

 

[Tom]

Ahh. A few problems there.

1. Tortoises should not be kept in pairs. The one is probably desperately trying to escape the territory of the other and avoid combat and attack.
2. That enclosure is way too small for even one russian. They need a large enclosure with room to move and explore. I recommend 4x8'.
3. Those temps sound good, but what is the basking temperature directly under the bulb?

Your first order of business is to separate them immediately and get both of them into much larger enclosures. Tortoise combat potential increases greatly at this time of year. Even if they are not currently attacking each other physically, this chronic stress is going to hamper their immune systems and they could get sick or die.

Wrapping the bottom of that tank with something opaque won't hurt anything, but it will not solve your other problems.

 

[MangoDiva]

So, are there two Russians in there? Or just the nervous one?

Two males. The other is very cool and laid back. Nervous guy is the smaller of the two and usually eats more than the other one too. Very different personalities. I know I should eventually separate them but trying to find room. They don't seem to fight with each other and get along so far.

 

[Tom]

Two males. The other is very cool and laid back. Nervous guy is the smaller of the two and usually eats more than the other one too. Very different personalities. I know I should eventually separate them but trying to find room. They don't seem to fight with each other and get along so far.

They are not getting along, and you are seriously risking their health by keeping them together. The other one is not laid back, he is trying to hide to avoid the wrath of the other male in the territory.

You can get a big 54 gallon tub at the hardware store for about $15. Add a light fixture and heat lamp for another $15. Throw some yard dirt in there and you could have them living separately in whatever the drive and shopping time is.

Many people think this sort of thing is fine and they will get around to it when they have time. I've seen this end in disaster far too many times. I am trying to warn you before it is too late. I hope you are one of the people who will listen.

 

[MangoDiva]

Ahh. A few problems there.

1. Tortoises should not be kept in pairs. The one is probably desperately trying to escape the territory of the other and avoid combat and attack.
2. That enclosure is way too small for even one russian. They need a large enclosure with room to move and explore. I recommend 4x8'.
3. Those temps sound good, but what is the basking temperature directly under the bulb?

Your first order of business is to separate them immediately and get both of them into much larger enclosures. Tortoise combat potential increases greatly at this time of year. Even if they are not currently attacking each other physically, this chronic stress is going to hamper their immune systems and they could get sick or die.

Wrapping the bottom of that tank with something opaque won't hurt anything, but it will not solve your other problems.

Wow! Ok.
1. The interesting thing is the nervous one seems like the bully or potential because he usually dominates when it comes to food. They have two separate hiding places but seem to prefer staying in the same.
2. ok. Not enough space. Good grief. Gotta figure out how to manage that.
3. Directly under basking is 88.

No current attacks as I could see but sure looks like this may be stress on his part.

 

[MangoDiva]

They are not getting along, and you are seriously risking their health by keeping them together. The other one is not laid back, he is trying to hide to avoid the wrath of the other male in the territory.

You can get a big 54 gallon tub at the hardware store for about $15. Add a light fixture and heat lamp for another $15. Throw some yard dirt in there and you could have them living separately in whatever the drive and shopping time is.

Many people think this sort of thing is fine and they will get around to it when they have time. I've seen this end in disaster far too many times. I am trying to warn you before it is too late. I hope you are one of the people who will listen.

I'm not trying to hurt them. That is why I am here on the forum ok? So a 54 gallon tub for each one is more sufficient you are saying. In NYC another light fixture and heat lamp will run more than $15 but that is not a problem.

Looks like they will each be getting there own condo today.

 

[Tom]

Pet stores are typically full of misinformation. It looks like that might be where you got your advice from. I know its a hassle, and totally inconvenient, but the well being of these tortoises depends on you doing the right things. I'm sorry they steered you the wrong way, and I hope we can help.

 

[MangoDiva]

Pet stores are typically full of misinformation. It looks like that might be where you got your advice from. I know its a hassle, and totally inconvenient, but the well being of these tortoises depends on you doing the right things. I'm sorry they steered you the wrong way, and I hope we can help.

Yup, you got it right.

 

[Tom]

I'm not trying to hurt them. That is why I am here on the forum ok? So a 54 gallon tub for each one is more sufficient you are saying. In NYC another light fixture and heat lamp will run more than $15 but that is not a problem.

Looks like they will each be getting there own condo today.

A 54 gallon tub is just a quick solution to your immediate problem of them living as a pair. This will buy you some time to figure out how to make them much larger enclosures that will suit them long term.

I mean no offense, but your situation requires some urgency to get the info across. I am very glad you are here and asking questions and my intended tone is one of pure helpfulness.

 

[MangoDiva]

A 54 gallon tub is just a quick solution to your immediate problem of them living as a pair. This will buy you some time to figure out how to make them much larger enclosures that will suit them long term.

I mean no offense, but your situation requires some urgency to get the info across. I am very glad you are here and asking question and my intended tone is one of pure helpfulness.

Thanks Tom. Much appreciated. At first I thought he was just getting more active but I could tell that the constant against the glass was not a signal of a good thing. That's a good quick solution until I can get a more permanent one. Thanks!

 

[Tom]

You are welcome. Sorry if my sense of urgency made things sound overly harsh.

Check these out. There might be some helpful tips you haven't seen yet.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Get to know your local hardware store. Better products at better prices.

 

[MangoDiva]

One great thing though as the weather gets better, I have a very nice sized backyard for a city dweller with a very long area for them to have an outdoor enclosure for the summer. I will look in the enclosure forum for any ideas of how to set that up. My concern with though are stray cats, squirrels and mice/rats. I know I can get the fence wire or chicken wire to put on top (will see what is recommended) but I'm going to worry about because of the cats, squirrels.

 

[Yvonne G]

One great thing though as the weather gets better, I have a very nice sized backyard for a city dweller with a very long area for them to have an outdoor enclosure for the summer. I will look in the enclosure forum for any ideas of how to set that up. My concern with though are stray cats, squirrels and mice/rats. I know I can get the fence wire or chicken wire to put on top (will see what is recommended) but I'm going to worry about because of the cats, squirrels.

And then in the winter you can allow them to hibernate (indoors, of course), and you'll never have to have an indoor habitat set up again!! Win, win!!

 

[MangoDiva]

So originally in November when be purchased the torts from PetSmart (first bad move) we were only interested in buying one. There were two in the enclosure in the store and the salesperson told us it was best to get in pairs or they would be lonely (we should have researched first before listening to this chick). We reluctantly got two but I grew to really like both of them. However, in talking it over with the family and realizing they need to be alone and separated we are going to keep only one. I don't want to give the other one back to that store at all! I want him to find a really nice home. They are separated for now but the more permanent solution for our situation is to just have one. And yes, everyone was definitely correct. I watched them for along time and the quieter one was def hiding from the aggressive one who to my shock and I had to literally shut my open mouth I saw bite him as he walked by. I was stunned and feel so dumb that I didn't see the signs before. So now they each are separate but the aggressive one is still going bananas by constant pacing and hitting up against the sides. There is a reptile store in the city and a reptile vet office so I am going to see if they will purchase him from me.