Tortoise memory and learning

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I stumbeled up on this article (yes it is a few years old) and it got me thinking about tortoise memory again:

A tortoise never forgets: Scientists show tortoises are elephants of the reptile world

New research into tortoise cognition suggests they are not as slow as they appear.

www.oist.jp

I know there are a lot of research bout tortoise spatial memory, but there are still a few questions I haven't found the answer to:

• How long is tortoise memory really? Why did they evolve to have such a long memory?
• Do they recognize/remember other tortoises?
• What about humans? This article seems to point towards tortoises recognizing their keepers.
• Also, the point about social learning in the article interests me. Do you think tortoises might be capable of it? Is it a common trait among all species?
• Any overall thoughts/resources/threads to check out?

 

[ryan57]

I stumbeled up on this article (yes it is a few years old) and it got me thinking about tortoise memory again:

A tortoise never forgets: Scientists show tortoises are elephants of the reptile world

New research into tortoise cognition suggests they are not as slow as they appear.

www.oist.jp

I know there are a lot of research bout tortoise spatial memory, but there are still a few questions I haven't found the answer to:

• How long is tortoise memory really? Why did they evolve to have such a long memory?
• Do they recognize/remember other tortoises?
• What about humans? This article seems to point towards tortoises recognizing their keepers.
• Also, the point about social learning in the article interests me. Do you think tortoises might be capable of it? Is it a common trait among all species?
• Any overall thoughts/resources/threads to check out?

Does the human body replace itself every 7 years?

Even when new cells are 'born,' aging still takes a toll.

www.livescience.com

Wonder what the cell replacement cycle is in a tortoise... notice in the article above that some areas regenerate at a much slower rate.

"Why did they evolve to have such a long memory?" - There is a much more fundamental question below the surface. It is the reason that our memory is not like computer memory and cannot be "captured" it is nowhere. It is not within cells which comprise 100% of our bodies. Why do we know this? Simple. Because our brain cells do not store our memories or we don't fully understand the parts of the cell that replicate and would duplicate memories so that you can still recall something. I am skeptical that while every living being has experiences and memory associated with that life, that the contents are physical in nature and contained within the body.

"Why did they evolve to have such a long memory?" - Evolution in the modern sense doesn't make much sense to me. The timeline is wildly incorrect (why is the sun, moon, earth approx the same?). Regardless of when the universe was formed, if it were formed with material 4.5 billion years old or having the same properties that are measured at that age, this still does not point to the actual date that the material came into it's current form. Like a box of clay from the store, if you made a pottery vessel with it, its age would be 4.5 billion years old... right? Natural selection is obvious/true and we see that variety and natural selection at work within one clutch of tortoise eggs.

"Also, the point about social learning in the article interests me. Do you think tortoises might be capable of it? Is it a common trait among all species?" - Being visual, if they are aware of what is going on around them, which they definitely are, then of course they would "learn" faster by observing others.

Memory Is Not Confined to Our Brains, Scientists Discover

Our brain isn't the only place memories form in our body.

www.sciencealert.com

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

"Why did they evolve to have such a long memory?" - Evolution in the modern sense doesn't make much sense to me. The timeline is wildly incorrect (why is the sun, moon, earth approx the same?). Regardless of when the universe was formed, if it were formed with material 4.5 billion years old or having the same properties that are measured at that age, this still does not point to the actual date that the material came into it's current form. Like a box of clay from the store, if you made a pottery vessel with it, its age would be 4.5 billion years old... right? Natural selection is obvious/true and we see that variety and natural selection at work within one clutch of tortoise eggs.

I meant to say what were the benefits of such a long memory that it got "chosen" in natural selection, if you get what I mean.

Thank you for the article!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Wonder what the cell replacement cycle is in a tortoise... notice in the article above that some areas regenerate at a much slower rate.

I would assume that it is slower than in humans, or maybe even all mammals. We are used to tortoises healing slowly, for example.

You might find this article interesting:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0014482774903425

 

[ryan57]

I would assume that it is slower than in humans, or maybe even all mammals. We are used to tortoises healing slowly, for example.

You might find this article interesting:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0014482774903425

Thanks for this. Yeah, these kinds of things are interesting to me.

 

[Anastasia 22]

It is the reason that our memory is not like computer memory and cannot be "captured" it is nowhere. It is not within cells which comprise 100% of our bodies. Why do we know this? Simple. Because our brain cells do not store our memories or we don't fully understand the parts of the cell that replicate and would duplicate memories so that you can still recall something. I am skeptical that while every living being has experiences and memory associated with that life, that the contents are physical in nature and contained within the body.

Our brain cells store our memories But it does it very selectively. A lot of memories go to subconscious, some to unconscious. There're several memory mechanisms that constantly work in our brain. And our memory could be like a computer memory if we would use 50%-60% of our brain.
Every living being has its DNA that helps to survive in wild....
I was in Smithsonian National Museum a month ago and everything there was about evolution and evolving. I still can’t accept the fact that humans evolved from rats

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Okay, I searched up some old threads on the forum:

How long is tortoise memory really? Why did they evolve to have such a long memory?

I thought this thread might be a part of an answer to my question:

Animals retain long-term memory of

Animals retain long-term memory of the biggest and best sources of food New research shows that red-footed tortoises can remember the location of their favourite food sources and the biggest stashes for at least 18 months. When animals are making decisions in their environment, it is important...

tortoiseforum.org

And here are two other threads about what kind of things tortoises remember:
Spatial memory

How a Painted Turtle Finds Its Way

By Timothy Roth, Aaron R. Krochmal from Blogs Scientific American January 30, 2019 Animal migration is one of the most charismatic, awe-inspiring phenomena of the natural world. Faced with unfavorable, often seasonal, changes in climate or habitat quality, animals, from birds to butterflies and...

tortoiseforum.org

Spatial memory in captive management

A case for changing enclosure decor up often, a study into spatial learning and memory of the tortoise brain.

In case you wondered if your tortoise gets bored of the same old setup, you might be right. Changing up decor and feeding locations will help enhance natural habits and conditions and keep your tortoise exploring and grazing. "The tortoise learned to perform reliably above chance...

tortoiseforum.org

Plus, get this someone has already posted I linked in my first post the article on the forum!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Plus, get this someone has already posted I linked in my first post the article on the forum!

Here is the other thread about the same article:

Very interesting read

https://www.oist.jp/news-center/news/2019/12/13/tortoise-never-forgets-scientists-show-tortoises-are-elephants-reptile

tortoiseforum.org

 

[ryan57]

Maybe I need to make my tortoise a room like I do at work for clients where his environment is changing more often. LOL. If I did this, he could take "winter walks".

 

[Anastasia 22]

Maybe I need to make my tortoise a room like I do at work for clients where his environment is changing more often. LOL. If I did this, he could take "winter walks".

That's is my favorite kind of modern art!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

This is the direction my research took me, as I started comparing species:

List of turtles and tortoises by number of neurons in the whole nervous system

Alternative title: From the Razor-backed musk turtle to the Alligator snapping turtle, who is the smartest of them all? So, I was reseaching tortoise intelligence, as one does and came across this nifty table on Wikipedia that lists animals by number of neurons...

tortoiseforum.org