Tortoise not growing... chart's included

[terracolson]

Tempi isnt growing. in weight or size.

The others have reached her weight and size.

They have grown 2 cm, since jan and she has grown 0.
They have gained 50 grams and she has lost 20 then gained 40 (now same weight as the others)


They are all the same size now and she is a good 2 months older.

What do i do? They have been outside since june,
2 thriving and one ok. she is light when you pick her up. the other are heavy.


i am going to separate her, last time i did that i seen her weight come back up. Then they went in a large pen outside. But i guess she cant even see them?

Left side Salty born jan
Right side tempi born oct or nov 09

 

[Annieski]

I don't know very much about leopards[only have a Sulcata] but their care is similar. I think, from the pic's, they are both beautiful. I would think their growth-rate would be similar to "human babies" in the idea, that no 2 torts will ever be exactly the same. Even "human twins" will have variations in growth. In the pic., both look healthy[bright eyes and very nice shells]. There may be some "competition" going on that you may not have seen, especially since when you separated them, the weight gain brought the more delicate one back to the previous charted weight. I would separate again, and perhaps for a longer time, to see if there is a difference and, of course, add a little extra TLC to the "under tort". JMO

 

[Meg90]

Put a divider down the outside pen. Its obvious, she went from bully, to bullied by the other tortoises. People think "oh they're babies" but they aren't---no one takes care of them, there is no parenting regardless of their size in the wild. They are little tiny replicas of adult tortoises from day one. They will fight for their food, bully, and claim their territories. If her weight came up when she was alone, her stress probably went down as well. So I think splitting her off from the other two completely, and permanently is a good idea. Since they are getting bigger now Terra, you need to consider separating them all. Over the winter they will continue to grow, and in a smaller space indoors, there is very little doubt in my mind atleast that one tortoise will be dominant over the other two. I think seperate enclosures for all of them is in your best interest.

I am a bit surprised by the growth rate that you've had, that said, I don't keep leopards, but the growth of my Greeks when compared to your leos, is dramatically different. I am copying and pasting Novalee's chart here, because I have had her since she was very young, as you have had all of your baby leos. I included only the dates from her at one month, to eight months old.

08/30/09—Hatchling measured 2” SCL and weighed 29 grams at 1 month and five days old
09/25/09—Novalee measured 2 1/8” SCL and weighed 35 grams at 2 months old
10/25/09—Novalee measured 2 3/8” SCL and weighed 51 grams at 3 months old
11/25/09—Novalee measured 2 5/8” SCL and weighed 66 grams at 4 months old
01/04/10—Novalee measured 3 1/16” SCL and weighed 85 grams at 5 months and 10 days old
01/25/10—Novalee measured 3 1/4” SCL and weighed 110 grams at 6 months old
02/25/10—Novalee measured 3 1/2” SCL and weighed 148 grams at 7 months old.
03/25/10—Novalee measured 3 7/8” SCL and weighed 177g at 8 months old

How well do all of the babies eat? And how often, what, and how much? Slow growth is usually good growth, but in your case, I wonder if its slower because all three are competing for food.

 

[Yvonne G]

People think "oh they're babies" but they aren't---no one takes care of them, there is no parenting regardless of their size in the wild. They are little tiny replicas of adult tortoises from day one. They will fight for their food, bully, and claim their territories.

This is an excellent observation! Thank you for stating the obvious that we all seem to forget from time to time.

 

[terracolson]

I was thinking my babies were a bit small, but i think its cause of the weather here. we never got a good summer, most nights its still cool.

I can divide them all 3.

We will see how that works...

 

[Greg T]

They look great! Growth rate will vary among a group, maybe because of bullying or maybe other reasons. All three of mine seem to grow at different times and rates, and none seem to be really consistent. My largest hasn't grown much in the last year, although I know she gets more food than the others and grazes daily. My smaller ones hit a real growth spurt this summer and really put on some pounds, but not so much in shell growth. The important thing is to make sure they are fed well and healthy - don't focus only on size.

 

[-JM]

Is that hydration formula you are using accepted for all tortoise breeds?

 

[terracolson]

Is that hydration formula you are using accepted for all tortoise breeds?

I know it was meant for red foots, but it gives me an idea..

---

Put a divider down the outside pen. Its obvious, she went from bully, to bullied by the other tortoises. People think "oh they're babies" but they aren't---no one takes care of them, there is no parenting regardless of their size in the wild. They are little tiny replicas of adult tortoises from day one. They will fight for their food, bully, and claim their territories. If her weight came up when she was alone, her stress probably went down as well. So I think splitting her off from the other two completely, and permanently is a good idea. Since they are getting bigger now Terra, you need to consider separating them all. Over the winter they will continue to grow, and in a smaller space indoors, there is very little doubt in my mind atleast that one tortoise will be dominant over the other two. I think seperate enclosures for all of them is in your best interest.

I am a bit surprised by the growth rate that you've had, that said, I don't keep leopards, but the growth of my Greeks when compared to your leos, is dramatically different. I am copying and pasting Novalee's chart here, because I have had her since she was very young, as you have had all of your baby leos. I included only the dates from her at one month, to eight months old.

08/30/09—Hatchling measured 2” SCL and weighed 29 grams at 1 month and five days old
09/25/09—Novalee measured 2 1/8” SCL and weighed 35 grams at 2 months old
10/25/09—Novalee measured 2 3/8” SCL and weighed 51 grams at 3 months old
11/25/09—Novalee measured 2 5/8” SCL and weighed 66 grams at 4 months old
01/04/10—Novalee measured 3 1/16” SCL and weighed 85 grams at 5 months and 10 days old
01/25/10—Novalee measured 3 1/4” SCL and weighed 110 grams at 6 months old
02/25/10—Novalee measured 3 1/2” SCL and weighed 148 grams at 7 months old.
03/25/10—Novalee measured 3 7/8” SCL and weighed 177g at 8 months old

How well do all of the babies eat? And how often, what, and how much? Slow growth is usually good growth, but in your case, I wonder if its slower because all three are competing for food.

Thank you for this reply, after some thought, I think it is the weather that was the real factor, when they were outside the area was so large they didnt have to ever see each other and i always feed them in 3 areas. BUT most of there food was grass..

So I will be getting 2 sweater box's and all 3 get there own today.

Its seems that al they do anyway is sleep. I am wondering if this is still normal?

Should they be active? or is just eating and sleeping still ok?

 

[Greg T]

Its seems that al they do anyway is sleep. I am wondering if this is still normal?

Should they be active? or is just eating and sleeping still ok?

If you have them outside, leopards will usually be active early in the morning and later in the evening when the temperatures are cooler. During the afternoon, you'll find them resting under some shade usually.