Tortoise on Tortoise crime - "ankle" biting

[Schlomo]

When I got home from work today, I went to check and see if the Tortoises were all doing ok. They finished all their food so I decided to give them some more. Our Gopher tortoise (I still haven't decided on a name for them yet) walked up to the feeding tray first and this seemed to upset the Star tortoise a bit as he aggressively ran up and started to bulldoze his way to the food - I didn't pay much attention though as I went to take the dogs for a walk. When I get back 15 minutes later I see this (sorry if they are not clear - I used my cell phone):

The Star had bitten chunks of skin off of the Gopher tortoise's bag legs. I rushed the Gopher to the emergency room to get checked out and they cleaned his wound and gave me some Fortaz (9 injections - once every 3 days) and also some ointment (Silvadene).

I know I shouldn't have had them together, but I was told they had been kept together for years without any problems. I was so surprised that this happened. The Star is about 1/2 the size of the Gopher tortoise. I didn't realize they had such a powerful bite. What would make him so much more aggressive now if he hasn't been like this before?

I've separated them now and the Gopher tortoise is being kept in tub using paper towels as bedding for the time being.

I was planning to take the Gopher tortoise to a rescue down in Georgia later this year, but now I'm wondering if any long-time forum members here who have cared for this type of tortoise before would want to adopt him. It'd be nice to get updates and see photos of how he is doing. I would like him to go somewhere he can be outside for most of the year.

Picture of the culprit:

 

[Torty Mom]

Aww, poor said alleged tortie looks very innocent to me "What.......... I didn't do it, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!"

 

[ascott]

Where do you live? How old is he? Will you post a pic of his face?

 

[Schlomo]

Aww, poor said alleged tortie looks very innocent to me "What.......... I didn't do it, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!"

I'm so surprised he is capable of that! He was very timid and shy when I got him. Now he acts like he owns the place.

Where do you live? How old is he? Will you post a pic of his face?

I live in Northern Virginia. I don't have the slightest clue how old he is. Here's a pic of him the day I got him last month:

These are from a couple of weeks ago:

 

[ascott]

He is gorgeous....well, I was going to tell you that I would take him .....uhhhh but you are in Virginia? CDT? hmmmm? well, I hope he finds his way to a calm, star free , home. Will the tortoise rescue take him and house him if he does not find a home? Gosh I hope so.....

I just love these guys....

 

[Yvonne G]

No..."Gopher" tortoise is from the Florida area.

I would more suspect that little ankle biter in the background rather than the Star tortoise. Are you sure it wasn't the dog?

 

[Schlomo]

No..."Gopher" tortoise is from the Florida area.

I would more suspect that little ankle biter in the background rather than the Star tortoise. Are you sure it wasn't the dog?

I'm positive it was the Star - he was ok when I went to take the dogs for a walk. When I came back, I saw the Star following him around trying to bite his back legs. Their enclosure is on a table so the dogs aren't able to get up there. At first, I couldn't believe my eyes because I didn't realize they could do that much damage.

I feel really bad for him - it must really hurt. I need to give him the antibiotic injections and am stressing out about that a bit. Is it ok for me to take him outside for walks still? Or should I keep him away from anything that could cause an infection?

 

[ascott]

Florida, California, Arizona, Utah, Mexico......all of the gophers/gopherus are beautiful, to me....just sorry that I am not able to swoop him up.....he has such disappointment, heavy hearted sadness in his eyes....I sure hope you can find him a home in which the host adores and completely falls in love with him

Have you done injections on a tortoise/turtle before dear? :shy:

 

[Angi]

I think they should be kept seperate. Did you take him to a vet? I ask because you said you were going to give him injections. I have been doing this for a few weeks for Trudy and I hate it. It is not that hard, but it breaks my heart to hurt her Good luck.

 

[Schlomo]

Yep I took him to the vet and they gave me 9 needles of Fortaz. I have never done any injections before and don't like needles that much myself. Having a bit of trouble sleeping right now because I feel so bad for him. They showed me how to do it and to make sure I don't inject the Fortaz into any blood vessels, but just sticking the needle in to him will be very hard for me.

 

[ascott]

It is a bit funky the first time or two But go ahead and get some sleep....I bet he is sleeping

The best advise I received from the vet still did not prepare me for the "first time"...

What I found to work for me (if you don't have a second person)

get the injection all ready along with a cotton ball or cotton square

figure where you are going to sit to do it (sitting is best if solo)

get your victim, I mean patient ---just playing with ya

sit down and place him on your lap securely

decide which side you are going to use, turn him sideways with the selected side opposite your body
(as you will want to rotate from left to right with each shot)

take his front leg and kinda lightly rub him, so that he relaxes thinking you are simply adorning him and gets use to you touching him

then put your hand over the selected sides arm and gently hold your hand over his leg gently pressing it against his shell
(make sure not hurting him but secure enough that he is not going to jerk out of your grip)

be sure to allow some of his loose skin to form BETWEEN the selected leg and his neck so that the skin is not pulled too tight

and plan to insert the needle only enough to be sure the med is injected under the skin (not into the muscle) and that is the point he will give some objection if he is going to so be ready to maintain his arm steady but not hurting him

slowly push the med in and once done...gently pull the needle out...I would at that point throw the needle (only if no one else is around to be your next victim LOL) no, just kidding...set the needle aside and take that cotton ball/square and place it over the injection side and gently massage the spot...so it is less prone to be sore.....

If you are a visual person, you can also go onto youtube and type in "give tortoise injection" and a few will pop up for you to get a visual and to get comfortable mimicking the procedure.... good luck

 

[Schlomo]

thanks so much for the detailed instructions Angela. I also checked out the videos on youtube. Just want to make sure I don't ended up hurting him much.

 

[Torty Mom]

Are you wanting to rehome him? I might have to think up a dastardly plan.......

 

[tyler0912]

this is probably the least of your worries but i think your tort may have an ovegrown beak...correct me if im wrong...sorry about the leg :/

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Keeping a Star and a Gopher in the same table-top (so, smallish) container is a VERY bad idea, as you've now seen evidence of!

Let's hope that it's not too late...both could be carrying "bugs" that may prove fatal to the other!

Not sure what the legalities might be, but I've got an empty enclosure that'd be a good size for the Gopher.

 

[Schlomo]

Mary Anne - Yes, I've been looking to rehome him since about a week after I got him. I realized very quickly that I wouldn't be able to provide a proper enclosure for him.

Tyler - yes, his beak was very overgrown when I got him. I took him to the vet to have it trimmed down a bit, but it still seems a bit long. Much better than before though.

Terry - big mistake on my part. I should have separated them when I got them. I was told they had been kept together for years (close to 10) along with the Elongated tortoise without any issues. I figured it would be ok if I kept the Star and Gopher together for a while until I was able to rehome them. I was wrong. I saw the star becoming more active and outgoing, but I didn't realize he would also become more aggressive. If you are able to take him, do you know how I could get him to you?

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Terry - big mistake on my part. I should have separated them when I got them. I was told they had been kept together for years (close to 10) along with the Elongated tortoise without any issues. I figured it would be ok if I kept the Star and Gopher together for a while until I was able to rehome them. I was wrong. I saw the star becoming more active and outgoing, but I didn't realize he would also become more aggressive. If you are able to take him, do you know how I could get him to you?

Ship him overnight priority via FedEx...should be around $45 or thereabouts, which is not a problem...let me see if there's a legal way to get him, as all American tortoises are federally protected and I've heard that they're not supposed to cross state lines.

Anyone have this info?

 

[dmmj]

the gopher species cannot be shipped across state lines.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

the gopher species cannot be shipped across state lines.

That was what I was thinking, too, but are there any legal loop-holes to be exploited?

 

[dbsneed69]

I don't think there are any loop-holes. I'm pretty sure that the gophers are looked at as "property" of the state.

It might not be right but, I would call that joker a Sulcata and play dumb. As my wife has trained me, it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission.