UG filter fans only, please

Moozillion

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First, let me say I know that we are all caring, passionate people, especially in regards to our turtles/tortoises.
This forum contains an enormous range of experience in all areas of husbandry, and there are many different experiences with different methods.
I am requesting only UG filter fans on this thread because I have discovered this seems to be a hot topic, with vigorous debate.
I have successfully kept aquariums using UG filters much of my adult life. My most beautiful tank was a 75 gallon, which was served by an UG filter. In that tank my fish not only thrived but reproduced as well: my angel fish laid eggs several times, as did my Cory catfish. I even had Cory fry miraculously avoid being eaten and survived to adulthood! The tank was lightly planted, and was run on an UG filter.
So I am set on using UG filters for my turtles.
Currently, I am trying to set up my handicapped mud turtle's tank. It's the same 40 gallon breeder that she has been in all along, but I emptied it and put in UG filter plates and 3 inches of gravel.
I bought a brand new shiny Fluval 207 canister filter to power it and had to adapt the Fluval intake to fit in the UG lift tube. I've filled the tank to about 7 inches below the rim, and turned on the filter. It's running, but not moving water. I've reopened, examined, tucked sponge filters in, tightened everything that can be tightened. I've done it 3 times and called upon hubby (with stronger hands) to tighten further. Still not moving water.
My question is this: is it possible the Fluval 207 CAN'T pull water through 3 inches of gravel?
(In my heart I suspect it's that I've overlooked something, or still have to tighten something, but I got frustrated and had to step away. And if I can blame the EQUIPMENT...;))
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
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First, let me say I know that we are all caring, passionate people, especially in regards to our turtles/tortoises.
This forum contains an enormous range of experience in all areas of husbandry, and there are many different experiences with different methods.
I am requesting only UG filter fans on this thread because I have discovered this seems to be a hot topic, with vigorous debate.
I have successfully kept aquariums using UG filters much of my adult life. My most beautiful tank was a 75 gallon, which was served by an UG filter. In that tank my fish not only thrived but reproduced as well: my angel fish laid eggs several times, as did my Cory catfish. I even had Cory fry miraculously avoid being eaten and survived to adulthood! The tank was lightly planted, and was run on an UG filter.
So I am set on using UG filters for my turtles.
Currently, I am trying to set up my handicapped mud turtle's tank. It's the same 40 gallon breeder that she has been in all along, but I emptied it and put in UG filter plates and 3 inches of gravel.
I bought a brand new shiny Fluval 207 canister filter to power it and had to adapt the Fluval intake to fit in the UG lift tube. I've filled the tank to about 7 inches below the rim, and turned on the filter. It's running, but not moving water. I've reopened, examined, tucked sponge filters in, tightened everything that can be tightened. I've done it 3 times and called upon hubby (with stronger hands) to tighten further. Still not moving water.
My question is this: is it possible the Fluval 207 CAN'T pull water through 3 inches of gravel?
(In my heart I suspect it's that I've overlooked something, or still have to tighten something, but I got frustrated and had to step away. And if I can blame the EQUIPMENT...;))
Have you seen a REVERSE under gravel filter setup?
It pushes filtered water back up through the under gravel plates. Eliminating the need for deep cleaning maintenance of the plated
 

Moozillion

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Have you seen a REVERSE under gravel filter setup?
It pushes filtered water back up through the under gravel plates. Eliminating the need for deep cleaning maintenance of the plated
I have NOT seen that sort of setup.
My brain is trying to wrap around that whole idea.
So I just SWITCH the hoses?
Have you ever run a reverse UG filter, Ed?
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
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I have NOT seen that sort of setup.
My brain is trying to wrap around that whole idea.
So I just SWITCH the hoses?
Have you ever run a reverse UG filter, Ed?
No.
But I was considering it with my large Cichlids due to the amount of waste. And the regular cleanouts.
 

Tom

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First, let me say I know that we are all caring, passionate people, especially in regards to our turtles/tortoises.
This forum contains an enormous range of experience in all areas of husbandry, and there are many different experiences with different methods.
I am requesting only UG filter fans on this thread because I have discovered this seems to be a hot topic, with vigorous debate.
I have successfully kept aquariums using UG filters much of my adult life. My most beautiful tank was a 75 gallon, which was served by an UG filter. In that tank my fish not only thrived but reproduced as well: my angel fish laid eggs several times, as did my Cory catfish. I even had Cory fry miraculously avoid being eaten and survived to adulthood! The tank was lightly planted, and was run on an UG filter.
So I am set on using UG filters for my turtles.
Currently, I am trying to set up my handicapped mud turtle's tank. It's the same 40 gallon breeder that she has been in all along, but I emptied it and put in UG filter plates and 3 inches of gravel.
I bought a brand new shiny Fluval 207 canister filter to power it and had to adapt the Fluval intake to fit in the UG lift tube. I've filled the tank to about 7 inches below the rim, and turned on the filter. It's running, but not moving water. I've reopened, examined, tucked sponge filters in, tightened everything that can be tightened. I've done it 3 times and called upon hubby (with stronger hands) to tighten further. Still not moving water.
My question is this: is it possible the Fluval 207 CAN'T pull water through 3 inches of gravel?
(In my heart I suspect it's that I've overlooked something, or still have to tighten something, but I got frustrated and had to step away. And if I can blame the EQUIPMENT...;))
I occasionally have trouble getting a canister filter started because there is air in the lines or motor housing. They need to be "primed". I usually blow water into the intake hose with a powerhead to fill up the canister and blow out any air. If that isn't convenient, you can take off the outlet spout and suck start a siphon with the output hose into a bucket. That usually works, but it can be a bit messy.

Its weird. The older ones never used to have this problem, but newer ones do.

On a general note, I tried reverse flow UG systems in the past and never liked them. Instead of sucking particles down into the gravel (mechanical filtration) and keeping the water looking super polished, it blows those particles up into the water. A canister or back hanger can pick up some of the particles, but they don't do it as well as the entire gravel bed does it. Using a gravel vac once or twice a month during water changes removes all the gunk, and it is so satisfying watching those clouds of yuck get sucked right out of the tank and into my bucket for deposition on my tortoise food plants.
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
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I occasionally have trouble getting a canister filter started because there is air in the lines or motor housing. They need to be "primed". I usually blow water into the intake hose with a powerhead to fill up the canister and blow out any air. If that isn't convenient, you can take off the outlet spout and suck start a siphon with the output hose into a bucket. That usually works, but it can be a bit messy.

Its weird. The older ones never used to have this problem, but newer ones do.

On a general note, I tried reverse flow UG systems in the past and never liked them. Instead of sucking particles down into the gravel (mechanical filtration) and keeping the water looking super polished, it blows those particles up into the water. A canister or back hanger can pick up some of the particles, but they don't do it as well as the entire gravel bed does it. Using a gravel vac once or twice a month during water changes removes all the gunk, and it is so satisfying watching those clouds of yuck get sucked right out of the tank and into my bucket for deposition on my tortoise food plants.
Thanks, Tom.
At the time I had one of those MARINELAND H.O.T. (Hang on tank) Magnums.
If you fill the filter to the top, it will almost always pull a vacuum and work before it goes empty and sucks air.
However, I never tried that reverse system.
 

Tom

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Thanks, Tom.
At the time I had one of those MARINELAND H.O.T. (Hang on tank) Magnums.
If you fill the filter to the top, it will almost always pull a vacuum and work before it goes empty and sucks air.
However, I never tried that reverse system.
I still have my HOT Magnum. I use it with the micron cartridge when I'm doing water changes. It removes everything and makes a huge difference.
 

Markw84

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First, let me say I know that we are all caring, passionate people, especially in regards to our turtles/tortoises.
This forum contains an enormous range of experience in all areas of husbandry, and there are many different experiences with different methods.
I am requesting only UG filter fans on this thread because I have discovered this seems to be a hot topic, with vigorous debate.
I have successfully kept aquariums using UG filters much of my adult life. My most beautiful tank was a 75 gallon, which was served by an UG filter. In that tank my fish not only thrived but reproduced as well: my angel fish laid eggs several times, as did my Cory catfish. I even had Cory fry miraculously avoid being eaten and survived to adulthood! The tank was lightly planted, and was run on an UG filter.
So I am set on using UG filters for my turtles.
Currently, I am trying to set up my handicapped mud turtle's tank. It's the same 40 gallon breeder that she has been in all along, but I emptied it and put in UG filter plates and 3 inches of gravel.
I bought a brand new shiny Fluval 207 canister filter to power it and had to adapt the Fluval intake to fit in the UG lift tube. I've filled the tank to about 7 inches below the rim, and turned on the filter. It's running, but not moving water. I've reopened, examined, tucked sponge filters in, tightened everything that can be tightened. I've done it 3 times and called upon hubby (with stronger hands) to tighten further. Still not moving water.
My question is this: is it possible the Fluval 207 CAN'T pull water through 3 inches of gravel?
(In my heart I suspect it's that I've overlooked something, or still have to tighten something, but I got frustrated and had to step away. And if I can blame the EQUIPMENT...;))
7" is a bit high for many cannister filters to raise the water through their intake. Most recommend a max of 6". THe more the filter pump has to raise water over the rim, the more suction in the intake tube and it seems the connections they use these days are too prone to leaking air with that much suction. You can try raising water level and that should help a lot. Also really check and minimize any fittings or possible air leaks in that intake tube/hose.
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
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7" is a bit high for many cannister filters to raise the water through their intake. Most recommend a max of 6". THe more the filter pump has to raise water over the rim, the more suction in the intake tube and it seems the connections they use these days are too prone to leaking air with that much suction. You can try raising water level and that should help a lot. Also really check and minimize any fittings or possible air leaks in that intake tube/hose.
Sealing the joints of the pick up tubes with aquarium silicone helps a lot.
 

mark1

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did you check to see if the pump worked in the tank itself , not in the lift tube ? how low is the canister , if it's low enough once you get the siphon going it should pull the water from the tank with no effort , the only thing the pump needs to do is return the water ........... i've used a similar setup many times ........ i've used hang on the side of the tank filters with the intake tube of the filter set into the lift tube for the ug plate ....
 

Moozillion

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7" is a bit high for many cannister filters to raise the water through their intake. Most recommend a max of 6". THe more the filter pump has to raise water over the rim, the more suction in the intake tube and it seems the connections they use these days are too prone to leaking air with that much suction. You can try raising water level and that should help a lot. Also really check and minimize any fittings or possible air leaks in that intake tube/hose.
Mark, this brings up a whole additional topic that I'd like to discuss.

Problem: The tank inhabitant is a 3-legged Mississippi mud turtle. She is a NON-SWIMMER. She is fine in water that is no deeper than 3.5 inches because she can stretch up and reach her nose to the surface while standing on the sand. But any deeper than that and she panics: frantically paddling twice as fast as normal 4-footed turtles to try and reach the surface. She can't manage it very well, and spends her time hanging out up on top of objects in her tank so she can reach the air. This is no way to live, and the stress can't be healthy.
SO, her 40 gallon breeder, as you already know, is 16 inches high. If the water is only 6 inches from the rim, then that leaves 10 inches to the base. Minus 3 inches for gravel, and that's 7 inches of water between the gravel floor and the water level. She can't survive at that depth.
If I FILL the tank to start the filter, then reduce the water level 11.5 inches below the rim, will the pump still function since I STARTED it at a full water level?

ANY OTHER IDEAS WOULD BE WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(The previous filter on this tank was a Zoo Med Turtle Clean 30, which sat on a shelf at the same level as the tank. It worked but was inadequate for the amount of waste involved.)
 

Moozillion

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did you check to see if the pump worked in the tank itself , not in the lift tube ? how low is the canister , if it's low enough once you get the siphon going it should pull the water from the tank with no effort , the only thing the pump needs to do is return the water ........... i've used a similar setup many times ........ i've used hang on the side of the tank filters with the intake tube of the filter set into the lift tube for the ug plate ....
No, I have not checked the filter before being connected. That is a good point.
The canister is on the floor, below the tank stand, and well within the parameters noted in the instruction manual, so that, at least, is OK.
 

mark1

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you can raise the filter plates so as to put more of the water below the gravel , i've raised the filter plates with pvc , or bricks ..... i just looked at 2 90 gallon tanks i use with the same setup , the water is pulled 9-10 inches over the top of the tank ... not sure what type canister filters is on which tank , i have fluval , marineland , sunsun ,cascade , they've all worked ........
 

Moozillion

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you can raise the filter plates so as to put more of the water below the gravel , i've raised the filter plates with pvc , or bricks ..... i just looked at 2 90 gallon tanks i use with the same setup , the water is pulled 9-10 inches over the top of the tank ... not sure what type canister filters is on which tank , i have fluval , marineland , sunsun ,cascade , they've all worked ........
It’s a Fluval 207.
 

Moozillion

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did you check to see if the pump worked in the tank itself , not in the lift tube ? how low is the canister , if it's low enough once you get the siphon going it should pull the water from the tank with no effort , the only thing the pump needs to do is return the water ........... i've used a similar setup many times ........ i've used hang on the side of the tank filters with the intake tube of the filter set into the lift tube for the ug plate ....
Mark1, you nailed it: one of the clamps that holds the top unit to the canister doesn’t lock in, and when I tilt the filter, water spills out even though the clams are seated and “locked.”
???????
 

Moozillion

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Hubby wants to know if the clamps on the Fluval 207 canister can be replaced.
I doubt it, but I told him I'd ask.
I'll also check out their website.
Looks like I've got a defective canister filter. :-(
 

Moozillion

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you can raise the filter plates so as to put more of the water below the gravel , i've raised the filter plates with pvc , or bricks ..... i just looked at 2 90 gallon tanks i use with the same setup , the water is pulled 9-10 inches over the top of the tank ... not sure what type canister filters is on which tank , i have fluval , marineland , sunsun ,cascade , they've all worked ........
Mark1, do you have a photo of that kind of setup?
 

mark1

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i only run them if i have something that i don't think should be left out in the winter ..... here's the last time i used one , winter 2018 ....

Aviary-Photo-131936250288729942.jpg


as it sits now , the canister filter intake can be seen in the bottom left hand corner .....

DSCF8134_(2).jpg


in 2014 i raised 7 hatchling blanding's in them for their first 2yrs , without ever cleaning anything ..... the lighting was four 48" fluorescents , one UV bulb , the other 3 were kitchen and bath bulbs , i believe 6500k and one grow bulb .....

DSCF1831.jpg


DSCF1844_(2).jpg


DSCF1860.jpg
 
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