urates

[lito]

i have a captive bread greek. it was purchased from a local shop from birth. he was the size of a quarter when i got him and i have had him for 4 years. he's full grown. i found him with his penis out and appearing to have trouble getting it back in. i took him to the vet immediately and they say that he has urates so built up inside that his penis has no room to go back in. i now have to soak him for an hour every other hour in water 80-90 degrees until the x-ray are taken to determine what can be done. has anyone heard of this? i fed him organic romain and shredded veggies on a regular basis. i gave him calcium 1-2 times per week as recommended. i soaked him 1-2 times per week as recommended. i walk him outside. he doesn't have a tank, he has a terrarium. i just don't know what i can change or have done wrong and the vet also seems unsure.

 

[egyptiandan]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

You have a very nice Greek tortoise, he is though not adult size yet.

Is his penis still prolapsed? I have heard of stones in the bladder, but hadn't heard that they would prevent the penis from retracting.

Do you have any pictures of his plastron?

Danny

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Lito:

to the forum!!

I'm sorry your little Greek tortoise has a prolapse problem. Has the penis gone back in yet?

One of our members had this great idea about prolapse:

GBtortoises says: I have packed prolapses with sugar in a makeshift plastic diaper held on by duct tape. This method has worked well and a noticeable difference can be seen within the first few days. I think the longevity of the the "treatment" probably depends upon the severity. The tortoise needs to be closely monitored, kept warm, clean and dry but well hydrated (in terms of drinking water, not humidity) during this period. It may be a bit old fashioned in terms of practice but it is effective and much less physically evasive to the tortoise.

and Nearpass says:

Similar experience here. I had a Russian tortoise female with a prolapsed bowel. I fortunately saw it immediately. My vet recommended corn syrup, which worked amazingly well. It was gradually retracted over a period of hours. Her explanation was that when this happens, the tissues become/and remain engorged with fluids and therefore cannot retract, and that the sugar 'dries' this without permanent damage. There were no guarantees that it would stay put, but it did Cool

You can buy some sort of disposable diaper pad, cut it to size, pack on the sugar or corn syrup and duct tape the pad in place.

Feeding plants that are high in oxalic acid can cause stones. Another cause is constant dehydration. I think your vet is seeing stones, and not urates. However, when urates get hard, they are stones.

 

[lito]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

You have a very nice Greek tortoise, he is though not adult size yet.

Is his penis still prolapsed? I have heard of stones in the bladder, but hadn't heard that they would prevent the penis from retracting.

Do you have any pictures of his plastron?

Danny

the picture that i posted we not the most recent. this is him today. his penis is still in prolapse. the vet said that the reason why it's doing this is because his urates are very built up and hardened. he cannot pass them and there is no room for his penis to retract. the vet showed me the trick with the sugar to draw out the moisture to shrink the penis but it still would not go back in. he also showed me that he was breaking out chunks the size of fish tank pebbles and that there was more inside. i'm super hydrating him until the x-rays get taken to tell us more. i have just never heard of something like this happening and i don't know what i did wrong so that i can make changes.

 

[Candy]

Welcome to the forum Lito. I hope your little one the best. I take it they haven't taken the x-rays yet, why? Do they have to wait a while for something or could they do it now?

 

[lito]

Hi Lito:

to the forum!!

I'm sorry your little Greek tortoise has a prolapse problem. Has the penis gone back in yet?

One of our members had this great idea about prolapse:

GBtortoises says: I have packed prolapses with sugar in a makeshift plastic diaper held on by duct tape. This method has worked well and a noticeable difference can be seen within the first few days. I think the longevity of the the "treatment" probably depends upon the severity. The tortoise needs to be closely monitored, kept warm, clean and dry but well hydrated (in terms of drinking water, not humidity) during this period. It may be a bit old fashioned in terms of practice but it is effective and much less physically evasive to the tortoise.

and Nearpass says:

Similar experience here. I had a Russian tortoise female with a prolapsed bowel. I fortunately saw it immediately. My vet recommended corn syrup, which worked amazingly well. It was gradually retracted over a period of hours. Her explanation was that when this happens, the tissues become/and remain engorged with fluids and therefore cannot retract, and that the sugar 'dries' this without permanent damage. There were no guarantees that it would stay put, but it did Cool

You can buy some sort of disposable diaper pad, cut it to size, pack on the sugar or corn syrup and duct tape the pad in place.

Feeding plants that are high in oxalic acid can cause stones. Another cause is constant dehydration. I think your vet is seeing stones, and not urates. However, when urates get hard, they are stones.

i don't know the difference between the urates or stones but the vet is an exotic vet that previously worked at a zoo. he explained to me that litos urates must have not been clearing completely and that caused them to compact. he was breaking up chunks from inside of him that were white and grainy. they looked like hardened calcium supplement. the vet said that he felt more inside but could not reach it. hence the advice to soak him in an effort to either soften the urate or enable lito to pass it himself. he did have one significant urination that i saw and it did have the milky white stuff like normal. so far nothing extra has come out and his penis still has not gone back in. he goes to the vet tomorrow for x-rays. i'm just very anxious as there is nothing that i would not do for my lito bump.

---

Welcome to the forum Lito. I hope your little one the best. I take it they haven't taken the x-rays yet, why? Do they have to wait a while for something or could they do it now?

the vet treated him on thursday evening. he explained the my tort should be soaked to attempt to loosen up the urates and assist him in moving or possibly passing them. he has a apt. tomorrow at 8:30 am. then i will know more.

 

[egyptiandan]

I'm afraid that his penis has become necrotic and will have to be removed.

Danny

 

[Candy]

I'm afraid that his penis has become necrotic and will have to be removed.

Danny

What is that and what makes this happen Danny since I have a male also?

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Poor little tortoise! Thank goodness he has a caring, attentive keeper to help him get through this.

Danny, I know this issue has been covered before...is it possible for Lito to still have some quality of life without his penis?

 

[egyptiandan]

Being outside the body for over 24 hours and not being taken care of in that time. The longer it stays out of the body the more chance it gets for the tissue to start to die.
If you can't get a penis inside the body with applying sugar and pushing it in manually, it's needs to be coated with an antibiotic ointment and the tortoise placed on a clean plastic surface. This way nothing comes in contact with the penis except the ointment. This prevents the tissue from drying and dying. This gives a chance for the tissue to loose it's fluid and be able to go back in, either on it's own or manually pushed in. You need to keep trying to get it back in every 3 to 4 hours until you can get to a vet.
A tortoise or turtle can live very happly without a penis as it's only function is to insemenate a female.

Danny

 

[webskipper]

He's a good looking Greek.

 

[lito]

well lito went to the vet today. he was x-rayed and the vet showed me a marble sized stone in his bladder. the vet explained that surgery was not an option as lito is too small and the bladder is very sensitive/fragile. while alone with lito he peed, there was urate and grainy sand stuff that came out. (the vet seemed surprised that the urate stuff - milk white goo - was coming out. this had never stopped. i had been instructed that lito should be soaked until this emission was observed) plus his penis came back out. the vet took him back cleared out a good sized piece and put his penis back in. he gave lito an antibiotic shot. i don't think that lito's penis has become necrotic. the vet gave me an ointment to cover it in until the x-rays in case he pushed his penis back out. he was kept in a soft blanket to minimize possible damage as well as soaked for an hour every other hour. the vet said that losing his penis was a possibility but right now it has been put back and has not come back out since the vet visit. i have another apt for early monday, will con't to monitor him until then. also the vet said to give him a cucumber only diet to encourage extra water consumption until monday and call if there are any concerns.

---

He's a good looking Greek.

thank you. i feed him all organic and local raised greens. he likes veggies like squash and zucchini also.

---

Being outside the body for over 24 hours and not being taken care of in that time. The longer it stays out of the body the more chance it gets for the tissue to start to die.
If you can't get a penis inside the body with applying sugar and pushing it in manually, it's needs to be coated with an antibiotic ointment and the tortoise placed on a clean plastic surface. This way nothing comes in contact with the penis except the ointment. This prevents the tissue from drying and dying. This gives a chance for the tissue to loose it's fluid and be able to go back in, either on it's own or manually pushed in. You need to keep trying to get it back in every 3 to 4 hours until you can get to a vet.
A tortoise or turtle can live very happly without a penis as it's only function is to insemenate a female.

Danny

lito's penis was out for a while but the vet explained to me that it would not go in until there was room for it. the vet gave me "barri-care" and instructed me to keep his penis covered in it at all times. the tort was kept on a clean soft blanket in between soakings. the vet told me not to attempt pushing it back in myself as too much pressure in the wrong place can cause more damage than leaving it out. the vet says to continue with the soakings and he is on my speed dial if it looks worse. right now lito's penis had stayed in since the largest chunk yet came out. his cloaca is lubed. also, the vet said that his penis should be okay as long as it stays in as much as possible. he was taken to the vet within hours of being found in prolapse and all vet instructions have been followed. but thank you for the information. hopefully when all is said and done lito will be okay and he will keep a happy penis too!

 

[webskipper]

Alright! Sounds like someone is going to be studded out on the street corner to pay for vet bills :}

 

[Candy]

So happy to hear that it's looking better then before. Let us know how about the vet visit on Monday please as a lot of us will be waiting to hear about him. You sound like a wonderful owner who take very good care of your little guy, he's lucky to have you.

 

[lito]

lito is continuing to be soaked for one hour every other hour. he isn't eating. the vet mentioned that he has lost 25 grams since last weighed. there is nothing that i can do. lito won't start eating again until whatever is inside starts to come out. he needs room for food. i can tell that he's hungry though as he goes over to the food as if wanting to eat and opens his mouth but then does not eat. he has an apt monday at 8 am. i already notified my boss that my tort will be coming to work with me so continuing to monitor will not be an issue. we're doing everything that we can to get my lito bump back to health.

 

[lito]

lito has had two more vet visits. they have been giving him antibiotic shots and i keep soaking him hoping more will come out. at the last visit he pushed out more urate. the vet says that he may lose his penis but they are trying to keep it as there is still hope. i have another apt on friday. i just hope that he makes it because he has not gained any of the weight he lost.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

well lito went to the vet today. he was x-rayed and the vet showed me a marble sized stone in his bladder. the vet explained that surgery was not an option as lito is too small and the bladder is very sensitive/fragile. while alone with lito he peed, there was urate and grainy sand stuff that came out. (the vet seemed surprised that the urate stuff - milk white goo - was coming out. this had never stopped. i had been instructed that lito should be soaked until this emission was observed) plus his penis came back out. the vet took him back cleared out a good sized piece and put his penis back in. he gave lito an antibiotic shot. i don't think that lito's penis has become necrotic. the vet gave me an ointment to cover it in until the x-rays in case he pushed his penis back out. he was kept in a soft blanket to minimize possible damage as well as soaked for an hour every other hour. the vet said that losing his penis was a possibility but right now it has been put back and has not come back out since the vet visit. i have another apt for early monday, will con't to monitor him until then. also the vet said to give him a cucumber only diet to encourage extra water consumption until monday and call if there are any concerns.

---

He's a good looking Greek.

thank you. i feed him all organic and local raised greens. he likes veggies like squash and zucchini also.

---

Being outside the body for over 24 hours and not being taken care of in that time. The longer it stays out of the body the more chance it gets for the tissue to start to die.
If you can't get a penis inside the body with applying sugar and pushing it in manually, it's needs to be coated with an antibiotic ointment and the tortoise placed on a clean plastic surface. This way nothing comes in contact with the penis except the ointment. This prevents the tissue from drying and dying. This gives a chance for the tissue to loose it's fluid and be able to go back in, either on it's own or manually pushed in. You need to keep trying to get it back in every 3 to 4 hours until you can get to a vet.
A tortoise or turtle can live very happly without a penis as it's only function is to insemenate a female.

Danny

lito's penis was out for a while but the vet explained to me that it would not go in until there was room for it. the vet gave me "barri-care" and instructed me to keep his penis covered in it at all times. the tort was kept on a clean soft blanket in between soakings. the vet told me not to attempt pushing it back in myself as too much pressure in the wrong place can cause more damage than leaving it out. the vet says to continue with the soakings and he is on my speed dial if it looks worse. right now lito's penis had stayed in since the largest chunk yet came out. his cloaca is lubed. also, the vet said that his penis should be okay as long as it stays in as much as possible. he was taken to the vet within hours of being found in prolapse and all vet instructions have been followed. but thank you for the information. hopefully when all is said and done lito will be okay and he will keep a happy penis too!

---

---

All right! Nothing as good as a happy penis!!!

 

[Stephanie Logan]

He's probably pretty stressed from straining to pass the urates, discomfort with his penis out of place, and visits to the strange smelling room where the man in the white coat pokes and prods him...

Best wishes for Friday and beyond! I'll bet he starts gaining weight again once he's resettled into his routine and familiar environment.

 

[lito]

He's probably pretty stressed from straining to pass the urates, discomfort with his penis out of place, and visits to the strange smelling room where the man in the white coat pokes and prods him...

Best wishes for Friday and beyond! I'll bet he starts gaining weight again once he's resettled into his routine and familiar environment.

thank you for the encouragement. lito went to the vet again today. he has another apt on monday. i guess that the big thing is for him to keep passing out urate and then possibly have a bowel movement. i keep soaking him and giving him his favorite foods - romain, collads, radiccio, kale, orchids; etc. i'll keep posting but there have not been any big changes yet. we're just continuing to monitor him through this tough time. ~lilly

 

[webskipper]

Nothing as good as a happy penis!!!

Please say that out loud more often

2 ounces? I wish I can lose that much in a week.

Can he eat pumpkin or be given anything as a laxative? Coffee? Caster oil?

What about adding vitamins to his water? The feed store will have stuff for poultry in a pouch. You'll add a TBSP per x amount of water per body weight. The body can only absorb so much and if he drinks he'll only drink so much.