UV light

[dolfanjack]

What gasses in a CFL are used to generate UVB or is there a coating on 'regular' CFL that blockes UV. It seems that UVB CFL's are the biggest rip off in reptile keeping.

 

[Madkins007]

What gasses in a CFL are used to generate UVB or is there a coating on 'regular' CFL that blockes UV. It seems that UVB CFL's are the biggest rip off in reptile keeping.

As you know (or can learn here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp), fluorescent lamps give off invisible UV rays in the UVC range- a dangerous range for living things- it causes a lot of damage and has little benefit.

The tube is coated with materials that receive the UVC and convert it to visible light. The coatings that moderate the high-energy UVC to the lower energy UVB or UVA are basically eaten away by the transition.

I do not know if the glass is different between a UV and normal bulb- I suspect it would have to be.

HOWEVER, according to studies, a plain "Cool White" fluorescent bulb puts out more UVB in the 'near UVC' range that is best for vitamin F3 conversion than many cheap, low-level UVB bulbs do!

WOW! I just found this site- http://www.reptileuvinfo.com with tons of links to good articles, like this one on lighting overall- http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/docs/exotic-vet-vol9-3.pdf

I need to read it more carefully, but it brings up a lot of great points!

 

[dolfanjack]

Thanks for your research Mark.

 

[Tom]

I have personally pull many reptiles in the throes of MBD out from under expensive "UV" lighting set ups. They were all flourescent reptile specialty bulbs. They just don't work for whatever reason. I brought those same animals back from the brink of death with MVB during the middle of winter. I still have one. A big female green iguana with a weak back end and a little kink in the base of her tail. She was totally paralyzed in the back end, swollen in the jawline and was having those Ca deprivation tremors. With in a few days under the MVB she stopped the tremors. Within a couple of weeks some use came back to her back end and her jawline straightened up. When her tail bones recalcified, it left that little crook near the base.

Anyhow, flourescent reptile bulbs don't do anything, but light up the enclosure, IMO.

 

[shane1111]

i use Exo Terra Repti Glo Compact Fluorescent bulb http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/compact_fluorescent_bulbs.php
are they any good or should i get a zoo med power sun?

 

[dolfanjack]

It just seems to me that UV lights are a ripoff. I don't mean our animals don't need them I mean you can buy a spot light bulb at wallyworld for ten buck but MVB's at petco are $80.00. So why the cost difference except profiting from a 'hobbies' need?

 

[PeanutbuttER]

Wait, would a big spot light bulb put out the same amount of UVB as an MVB? They look physically similar enough, but I assumed that unless it was a reptile bulb it didn't put out anywhere near the same UVB.

 

[Tom]

Whoa. Wait a minute. MVBs are different than the flourescents we were talking about above. MVB's DO work and they are worth the money. They are not as good as natural sunshine, but they are better than nothing in the winter.

 

[Madkins007]

It just seems to me that UV lights are a ripoff. I don't mean our animals don't need them I mean you can buy a spot light bulb at wallyworld for ten buck but MVB's at petco are $80.00. So why the cost difference except profiting from a 'hobbies' need?

I have to call foul. You are comparing incandescent bulbs (typical spot lights), mercury vapor bulbs (MVBs) and fluorescents- plain bulbs vs, specially crafted bulbs.

Many of these bulbs emit UV as part of their design, but in most of them the UV is blocked or shifted to visible light. Bulbs that generate USEFUL REPTILE UVB, UVB in the 260nm range, the part of the UVB range closest to UVC (or furthest from purple), have to be specifically crafted to do so. This a.) costs more money, and b.) sells to fewer people, so we pay the difference.

True- any specialty store marks stuff up a lot- whether it is pets, golf, etc. However, trying to find bulbs tuned to offer 260nm is tough. Traditional 'black lights' emit mostly at 360-400nm- the UVA range closest to purple.

Go ahead and try it yourself- get a UV meter and measure the bulbs- we'll wait... Oh, yeah- meters are expensive. Try websites that have done the work for us- like http://www.reptileuvinfo.com or http://www.uvguide.co.uk/

Bottom line- as far as UVB goes, there is a difference in bulbs.

I'd bet that most of Tom's bad experience was with people who used bulbs that were too small for the habitat, too far away, too old to have good UVB left, cheap bulbs that did not emit the right range, etc.

 

[Tom]

Mark, you are right about all of the above, but sometimes even with none of the above the animals still got MBD under "reptile" flourescents.

Further, I have yet to see any animal get any degree of MBD under a MVB, regardless of all of the above mentioned factors.

 

[dolfanjack]

It just seems to me that UV lights are a ripoff. I don't mean our animals don't need them I mean you can buy a spot light bulb at wallyworld for ten buck but MVB's at petco are $80.00. So why the cost difference except profiting from a 'hobbies' need?

I have to call foul. You are comparing incandescent bulbs (typical spot lights), mercury vapor bulbs (MVBs) and fluorescents- plain bulbs vs, specially crafted bulbs.

Many of these bulbs emit UV as part of their design, but in most of them the UV is blocked or shifted to visible light. Bulbs that generate USEFUL REPTILE UVB, UVB in the 260nm range, the part of the UVB range closest to UVC (or furthest from purple), have to be specifically crafted to do so. This a.) costs more money, and b.) sells to fewer people, so we pay the difference.

True- any specialty store marks stuff up a lot- whether it is pets, golf, etc. However, trying to find bulbs tuned to offer 260nm is tough. Traditional 'black lights' emit mostly at 360-400nm- the UVA range closest to purple.

Go ahead and try it yourself- get a UV meter and measure the bulbs- we'll wait... Oh, yeah- meters are expensive. Try websites that have done the work for us- like http://www.reptileuvinfo.com or http://www.uvguide.co.uk/

Bottom line- as far as UVB goes, there is a difference in bulbs.

I'd bet that most of Tom's bad experience was with people who used bulbs that were too small for the habitat, too far away, too old to have good UVB left, cheap bulbs that did not emit the right range, etc.

You made my point, the regular cheap bulbs we buy already emit the UV.
Doesn't it cost more money to block the UV with special coatings? Why not sell the unblocked bulbs to us hobbiest for cheaper?

 

[DeanS]

Tom has summed it up best by saying all the UVB fluorescents do is 'light up the cage'...MVB seems to have far greater advantages to use than UVB tubes...

 

[Madkins007]

You made my point, the regular cheap bulbs we buy already emit the UV.
Doesn't it cost more money to block the UV with special coatings? Why not sell the unblocked bulbs to us hobbiest for cheaper?

As I point out in the first reply, fluorescent bulbs emit UVC- which is dangerous, causes skin cancer, kills healthy cells, fades many inks and fabrics, etc. It is not something I want around my family or animals.

Incandescent bulbs (like your aforementioned $10 Walmart spot lights) do not automatically emit UV and must be modified to even come close- you can get them that emit some UVA, but I have not seen many that can emit UVB- what we need.

Mercury Vapor Bulbs do not emit UV normally, other than for a moment at start up. They are a mostly blue light that needs to be moderated to be more useful- color balanced, or even UV enhanced if needed.

Just a plain, cheap white MVB is about $20. You can get a cheap UVB MVB, like the Fluker Sunspot, for about $25- but it is not considered a well-made, or long-lasting unit.

Part of the reason the GOOD UVB MVBs cost a bunch (but only $47 from http://www.reptileuv.com/megaray-sb-100-watt-self-ballasted-flood-uvb-lamp.php) is because they are better made and last longer, while also being better 'tuned' for our needs.


But- if you want to do this about overpriced reptile vitamins and calcium- I'll join in on your side!

 

[LunaNegra]

WOW! I just found this site- http://www.reptileuvinfo.com with tons of links to good articles, like this one on lighting overall- http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/docs/exotic-vet-vol9-3.pdf

I need to read it more carefully, but it brings up a lot of great points!

I just finished reading the PDF file linked above (Thanks!), which is actually a newsletter for vets who specialize in exotics. There is an EXCELLENT article ( starts on page 29-36) titled "Reptile Lighting is a Process, not a Bulb." It also has great pictures and charts.

It really explains the various reptile needs, what the differences are between various bulb emissions (and the problems that can result from using the wrong bulbs, including a discussion about incandescent bulbs.) It also has great charts showing the various UV spectrum emitted. The idea that just any bulb/household lighting will do, can produce the same types of harm that thinking that "Well, ice burg lettuce is a lettuce and that will do just as well, as other types."

I HIGHLY recommend it as reading!