Want to get opinions on my russians

[Ron B]

Hello, I have 3 russians 1 male and 2 females all of them housed separately. my 6"+ female is in a 4' x 5' enclosure and the smaller 4" ones are in zoo med tortoise houses. i live in south florida so during the day i have them outside and indoors during the night. the substrate im using is organic soil for the bottom layer and the top layer with cypress mulch. these guys love burrowing and it holds up pretty well. The staple diet I offer these guys is just zoo med grassland diet by itself soaked in water until its mush then i drain any excess water and my guys love this stuff. in the evening i also give them fresh weeds from my garden like dandelions and clovers. I've had these guys for about 6 months now and im just wondering if im doing everything right any suggestions or questions? I wanted to try the mazuri ls diet because its a lot cheaper then zoo med but i saw that it has a little less fiber and more protein then zoo med, which i know this species need a high fiber low protein diet . what are you guys preference between the two?

 

[JoesMum]

Hello and welcome

My first comment is that all 3 enclosures are way too small. Horsfield's are very active torts and need a minimum of 8'x4' each.

This Care Guide was written by @Tom who is very experienced in their care and it will help you understand their needs better
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

You are correct that their diet is high fiber low protein. It is also low sugar. They are grassland torts and their diet should naturally be a variety of leafy green weeds and garden plants.

They can't process sugars properly, it causes kidney problems, so fruit, tomato, bell pepper and carrot should be fed only occasionally.

My advice would be to get some greens in there and not rely on processed food.

Do they get outside?
What do you have for lighting?

Pictures speak a thousand words- some of your enclosures and lighting will help us to help you do the best for your torts.

 

[Ron B]

Hello and welcome

My first comment is that all 3 enclosures are way too small. Horsfield's are very active torts and need a minimum of 8'x4' each.

This Care Guide was written by @Tom who is very experienced in their care and it will help you understand their needs better
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

You are correct that their diet is high fiber low protein. It is also low sugar. They are grassland torts and their diet should naturally be a variety of leafy green weeds and garden plants.

They can't process sugars properly, it causes kidney problems, so fruit, tomato, bell pepper and carrot should be fed only occasionally.

My advice would be to get some greens in there and not rely on processed food.

Do they get outside?
What do you have for lighting?

Pictures speak a thousand words- some of your enclosures and lighting will help us to help you do the best for your torts.

Hi thanks for the info and yes i rarely offer anything with sugar if i do feed them it's only carrots and that's maybe 2 times a month and also I buy spring mix from the grocery store and feed that 3 times a week and the spring mix comes with spinach so i remove that because i heard it's not to good for them and they are always kept outdoors expect on bad rainy days, i move them indoors and add zoo med mvb to each enclosure. And i will post pictures tomorrow while they are outside. i use the zm tortoise house because it makes it easier for me to move the cages from outside to inside i was planning on buy additional zm tortoise house to extend there cage while they are still growing. once they get larger i am hoping to make a breeding group. i know the dangers of housing them together and of course i will be ready to separate them if anything happens. i want to eventually build a 12 x 12 enclosure for the group with a lot of sight barriers for them get away from each other.

 

[JoesMum]

Here's a list of suitable greens for your Russians (shamelessly stolen from Yvonne G )
Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads

Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard

You can look them up on the Tortoise Table Plant Database if you're not sure about identifying them
http://thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/plant_database_14.asp

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hi Ron

 

[Ron B]

this is the bigger females enclosure. She knows she is about to be fed that's where she eats

 

[Ron B]

Hi Ron
View attachment 173702

Thank you!

 

[JoesMum]

It is too small,. As I said earlier 8' x 4' is the minimum.

That pet store reptile water bowl is a tipping hazard. They aren't recommended for tortoises. A terracotta plant saucer makes a much safer water bowl. You can sink it into the substrate and it makes it easier for a tort to wade and drin.

The enclosure also needs some planting, so that there are things for your tort to hide under. They don't like being completely exposed all the time. Have plants growing in pots and sink the pot into the substrate. Then the plants will grow better and it's easy to swap them out for another if/when they get eaten or trampled.

 

[Ron B]

It is too small,. As I said earlier 8' x 4' is the minimum.

That pet store reptile water bowl is a tipping hazard. They aren't recommended for tortoises. A terracotta plant saucer makes a much safer water bowl. You can sink it into the substrate and it makes it easier for a tort to wade and drin.

The enclosure also needs some planting, so that there are things for your tort to hide under. They don't like being completely exposed all the time. Have plants growing in pots and sink the pot into the substrate. Then the plants will grow better and it's easy to swap them out for another if/when they get eaten or trampled.

you can see that black patch on the top left corner where I did have a plant but she destroyed it. I really like the idea with the pot in the substrate being lifted a little that will prevent her from actually killing the plant and let it grow a little I'm gonna use that idea and I do have enough room to extend her cage by another 4 feet in length thats for next weeks project I was thinking about planting spinless cacti around the enclosure to add more variety to the diet is that a good choice?

 

[Ron B]

And I'm definitely gonna switch out the water dish with the terracotta plant saucer its a lot cheaper and safer. I appreciate all this info

 

[JoesMum]

I think there's probably a roaring trade on eBay and craigslist of pet store reptile bowls that aren't suitable for torts

Any edible plant is good. Take care with eye level spines on cacti - and give yourself a chance of working in the enclosure without feeling like a pin cushion. Your tort can't really hide under a cactus. You need something more leafy

Spider plant is quite good. You can have a big one growing on a window sill and pot on the baby plants giving yourself an endless supply of replacements.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Ron, and welcome to the Forum!

I'd like to make a couple minor 'corrections' to what's been said before. Russian tortoises come from the steppe - sparse vegetation, and what they do manage to find are more plants than grasses. They are browsers, not grazers. I'm surprised they eat the grassland tortoise diet. But since that diet seems to be working for you, go for it.

You live in a great state for keeping tortoises. Do you have enough space outside to make a large enclosure - an place where all three tortoises can live together? If you have it well-planted with many hiding places, it should work out ok with one male and two females in the same yard. I have one male and three females outside. The grass is pretty tall because we've had quite a bit of rain, so they can't actually see their whole world, and the females have lots of room to get out of the male's sight.

Here in my area, if I need to bring anyone in for the night, I don't bother with an indoor habitat. I just bring them in to a cardboard box full of shredded newspaper. Then out they go in the morning to their yard.

 

[Tom]

It looks like you have the basics covered pretty well and you understand the most important details.

It also seems like you've been reading some internet stuff and there are a few finer conversation points I'd love to address.

1. The ZooMed stuff is fine, but that is more for grass eaters. I like to use it to amend the grocery store greens, like spring mix, that are lacking in fiber. Soak it and then mix it all up with some greens. Its good as a supplement to a good diet, but I wouldn't use it as a staple. Same with Mazuri.
2. Mazuri is good stuff. Protein is not the enemy that we once thought it was. They need some protein some of the time and Mazuri, clover and alfalfa are all good ways to provide it. Make sure the tortoise is well hydrated.
3. Spinach is not the enemy we once thought it was either. All spinach every day would be bad. A little bit mixed in once or twice a week is good for them. High in iron and other good nutrients.
4. I agree with Joes Mum about the water bowl. Those are literally tortoise death traps. Great for snakes and lizards though. You should remove that bowl ASAP. Better to have no water for a few days until you can get a terra cotta saucer in there. You can soak them in the mean time too.
5. I also agree that bigger enclosures would serve your tortoises better. I think 12x12' will be adequate for your trio, but I'd go even larger if possible. If your tortoises are through your quarantine period, there is no reason you can't start trying to mix them now in a large outdoor enclosure. They might get along just fine, and you are already prepared with a back up plan if not.

 

[Ron B]

It looks like you have the basics covered pretty well and you understand the most important details.

It also seems like you've been reading some internet stuff and there are a few finer conversation points I'd love to address.

1. The ZooMed stuff is fine, but that is more for grass eaters. I like to use it to amend the grocery store greens, like spring mix, that are lacking in fiber. Soak it and then mix it all up with some greens. Its good as a supplement to a good diet, but I wouldn't use it as a staple. Same with Mazuri.
2. Mazuri is good stuff. Protein is not the enemy that we once thought it was. They need some protein some of the time and Mazuri, clover and alfalfa are all good ways to provide it. Make sure the tortoise is well hydrated.
3. Spinach is not the enemy we once thought it was either. All spinach every day would be bad. A little bit mixed in once or twice a week is good for them. High in iron and other good nutrients.
4. I agree with Joes Mum about the water bowl. Those are literally tortoise death traps. Great for snakes and lizards though. You should remove that bowl ASAP. Better to have no water for a few days until you can get a terra cotta saucer in there. You can soak them in the mean time too.
5. I also agree that bigger enclosures would serve your tortoises better. I think 12x12' will be adequate for your trio, but I'd go even larger if possible. If your tortoises are through your quarantine period, there is no reason you can't start trying to mix them now in a large outdoor enclosure. They might get along just fine, and you are already prepared with a back up plan if not.

Thank you guys so much all of this information is so useful that's the reason I joined this forum in the first place to expand my knowledge on these amazing animals

 

[Ron B]

Hi Ron, and welcome to the Forum!

I'd like to make a couple minor 'corrections' to what's been said before. Russian tortoises come from the steppe - sparse vegetation, and what they do manage to find are more plants than grasses. They are browsers, not grazers. I'm surprised they eat the grassland tortoise diet. But since that diet seems to be working for you, go for it.

You live in a great state for keeping tortoises. Do you have enough space outside to make a large enclosure - an place where all three tortoises can live together? If you have it well-planted with many hiding places, it should work out ok with one male and two females in the same yard. I have one male and three females outside. The grass is pretty tall because we've had quite a bit of rain, so they can't actually see their whole world, and the females have lots of room to get out of the male's sight.

Here in my area, if I need to bring anyone in for the night, I don't bother with an indoor habitat. I just bring them in to a cardboard box full of shredded newspaper. Then out they go in the morning to their yard.

Same goes to you Yvonne g I appreciate it