What race is my REALLY REALLY old Redfoot ?

[Geochelone_Carbonaria]

I would like you experts out there to help me and find out what race my very very old Redfoot is ? I know exactly how old he/she is, and that's not the issue here, but I'm not sure of what race he/she is ? I know that some of you previously wanted "proof" of the age, but I'm not interested in that discussion, I just want to know what kind of Redfoot it is and I'm giving it a second shot now... This Redfoot is about 12 inch and completly yellow, no red or orange anywhere on the limbs or head, just yellow. You can see for yourself how the carapace and he plastron has been "polished" over the years... It's just beautiful, don't you think "terryo", and the rest of you that had your doubts ?
So all you Redfoot "Experts" out there like "Madkins007", "ALDABRAMAN", "jackrat", "matt41gb", "N2TORTS", "Redfoot NERD" and the rest of you, here he/she is :

 

[Laura]

Its a HE and Danny is a good one to ask...
Oh danny...

 

[jackrat]

Looks like a North Western,maybe Columbian or Venuzuelan,male to me.

 

[Geochelone_Carbonaria]

Yes, I know that it looks like a "he", but it does not behave like a "he" towards the rest of my eight Redfoot Cherryheads, and it's too old to lay eggs or mate or anything else. This beautiful tort is more "human" and more interested in me than the rest of the group. And it eats like a horse !!! (I know, if you ask me, since we have two Icelandic horses too...)

 

[Laura]

and how old is he?
maybe he is 'retired'

 

[Geochelone_Carbonaria]

Oh yes, it's retired since many years...

My somewhat diplomatic answer to your quesion is "age unknown" !

 

[terryo]

Is that the one that you said was 70 years old?

 

[Geochelone_Carbonaria]

Please don't start this discussion again, terryo ! The age is "unknown". I just want to hear your opinion about what race it can be ?

 

[kbaker]

I hope to be added to that list of people sooner than later...

I would agree with North West/Columbian. Being older/polished and nothing positive that stands out to say anything more than Northern, I think it will be hard say it is anything, but not a Cherryhead.

I would like to hear more about why you think "it's too old to lay eggs or mate or anything else".

 

[Kristina]

Fertility in tortoises tends to actually increase with age, not decrease.

 

[Geochelone_Carbonaria]

I hope to be added to that list of people sooner than later...

I would agree with North West/Columbian. Being older/polished and nothing positive that stands out to say anything more than Northern, I think it will be hard say it is anything, but not a Cherryhead.

I would like to hear more about why you think "it's too old to lay eggs or mate or anything else".

I don't think, I know ! This one is more interested in food and bullying the others, especially when they try to mate And it's an expert in biting the others when they eat and stretch their necks ! You know the "loose neck skin" ? That's where it bite most of them when it's food time...

---

Fertility in tortoises tends to actually increase with age, not decrease.

I know, but why hasn't this one tried to mount any of my five females then during the last ten years, if it's healthy that is ? This is a Redfoot and it does not care if the others are Cherryheads, Northeners or any other race, as long as they are female Redfoots, right ? So maybe it is retired after all ? But it's a happy tort, that's all I need to know really...

 

[jackrat]

IDK.I have a Guyanan male ,that I would be willing to bet ,is older than anything you own,that is interested in little else than breeding.This old boy is an antique. Want to see an old,"polished"shell?Take a look at him.He's on the left.I'm just saying,age hasn't diminished his desire to procreate in any way. He is also crabby,and will bite to assert his position as the dominant male in the group.

 

[terryo]

Please don't start this discussion again, terryo ! The age is "unknown". I just want to hear your opinion about what race it can be ?

Sorry! I only wnated to know if that was the same one that was discussed on your old threads.

 

[N2TORTS]

Mike ..... could you wet the head and get a close up shot of the head above the nose?...

JD~

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

I am for sure not a redfoot expert, maybe aldabra. I could not identify the sub species like some of these true experts, however that tortoise is aged and looks great!

 

[cdmay]

That animal is very typical of the Colombian red-foots imported during the 1960's thru the mid 1970's. It was not unusual to see individuals with no color other than yellow on them. Several of my breeders that I obtained in the mid 70's possessed only shades of yellow. Some were kind of buttermilk colored but they had NO RED at all.
This hatchling is from a pair that was part of the group I was working with...

The pair of Colombian red-foots that produced this hatchling a few years back have been in captivity since 1967. Like Kyryah said, tortoises are often fertile right up until they croak.
The aggressive behavior of some captive tortoises may be a result of the unnatural captive environment they are in or is just simply aberrant behavior. I doubt age has anything to do with it.
But then again, the famous old male Duncan Island tortoise named Onan became a real nutjob as he got older. He kept humping boulders too so, there you go...

 

[matt41gb]

I agree with Jeff (jackrat) on the location the tortoise originated from. I would say that your tortoise is a male. The picture of the dorsal view of the carapace has no "waist line," which is a female trait. I know some cherry-head males lack the waist line, like the Northers have. When I look at the ventral shot (plastron,) I do see some concavity and also the marginal scute on the carapace that covers the tail is very large, also suggesting male. The tail, however, is very small. Typically a male's tail will reach to the back of the legs, but I don't see that occurring in your tortoise. I still think your tortoise is a male. I have a female that reminds me a lot of your red-foot. She has the same yellow head and scalation on her forelimbs.

I was told that this gal is in her 30s.

-Matt

 

[N2TORTS]

So Carl, would it be an educated guess that it's its a " Northern" ?

JD~

 

[cdmay]

So Carl, would it be an educated guess that it's its a " Northern" ?

JD~

Its absolutely a northern. Probably a Colombian but there is no way to prove it.

---

There is also the possibility that this is an inter-sex animal and that might explain the confusing traits and behavior.
But I would add that male red-foots from Colombia often do not have a narrow 'waist' like the animals from Venezuela, Surinam and the Guyanas do.
One other thing, when I mentioned Colombian animals being imported during the 1960's and 70's I meant imported into the United States. But is this tortoise in Sweden?--did I read that right? I have no idea what the importation history is there.

 

[Madkins007]

There is some research that states that at least some female Red-foots can show very masculine characteristics (GUIX, Juan Carlos, Fedullo, Daniel L., Molina, Flavio B. "Masculinization of captive females of Chelonoidis carbonaria (Testudinidae)" Rev. Esp. Herp. #15, 2001.), and there are several reasons a male tort would loose interest in sex with age, even though that is not normal- although most of them are related to medical issues.

I also apologize again if my earlier questions about the old guy bothered you- they were driven by simple curiosity.

As far as race, 'Northeastern South America' seems safe enough. There do not seem to be good, universal, and consistent variations between the localities within that range.