What would you do?

[dan bristow]

Hi there,
I'm after some advice/ opinions
I'm just getting back into tortoises after a bit of time off and am getting a sulcata. I know what getting into these guys entails and am prepared for it all.
My friend owns a good reptile store here in the uk so i asked him to source me a sulcata that was larger than a hatchling. He got one in for me to have a look at from his supplier. I asked,and so did he, for the smoothest one they had.
It is not smooth at all when it arrived!
Now,the Q is what do I do?
I feel bad to the animal sending it back to a supplier,especially when I can offer it a good life,but I just really wanted a smooth one to start with to grow into a lovely smooth adult,like a lot of your guys on here.
I will get some pics up for you to look at soon as I get them uploaded.
Is it possible to grow this out etc? I know some people have with others,but please have a look at the pics( when I put them up) and tell me what you think?
Please don't think of me bad for this as I know it sounds bad basing this on looks,it's just I've really whittled my collection of reptiles down so I can keep a sulcata and I wanted it to be 'right'

Many thanks for the replies i recieve and pics will be up ASAP

Dan

 

[dmmj]

Of course we all want smooth ones, but lumpy ones can be just as loved. If you like this one I would keep it.

 

[dmarcus]

Mine are not smooth but I love them all the same...

Pics will help with figuring out how bad it is, and what needs to be done to help..

 

[BrookeB]

I would have started with a hatchling if you wanted it smooth.. just because there are not alot of breeders who can produce "smooth" sulcatas.. it's sad really

 

[Blakem]

Depending on its severity in pyramiding, I've seen people post about there sulcata's becoming smooth after time of proper care. If it seems to have a great personality, keep it! The ultimate decision is yours. Good luck!

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

There's many ways to look at this. First of all, what was the exact arrangement you had with this shop owner upon him bringing in this particular animal for you to "look at?" Now you both asked for the "smoothest one they had." The reality of it is that this animal could very well be that! It's just simply not as smooth as a tortoise could be, and certainly not the greatest testament of the breeders and/or suppliers husbandry. Whatever the case, in terms of sheer product and service, if it is not what you really want, no one is making you buy it. After all, it is your money and yours to do with as you please. No one can fault you for that. Hopefully, your shop owner will understand.

Now to address your other questions. Pyramiding is irreversible. There's no amount of good diet, proper lighting and ideal humidity that can "cure" whatever pyramiding is already there. However, in a fairly young animal, all those things can prevent it from getting worse, and over time, the new smooth growth of the shell will dominate and after a decade or so, one could hardly tell that a juvenile sulcata had any bumpiness. Also, I haven't seen the photos yet, but a sulcata with pyramiding doesn't equal a sulcata on its death bed. Like I said, usually at about a year of age, whatever damage done is done, but proper husbandry can prevent it from then on and as the years go by, you'll have a relatively smooth tortoise.

However, going back to the first thing...if this is indeed the smoothest tortoise that supplier has, and you decide to buy it, you are giving that supplier your business. IN the grand scheme of things, if we want the breeders and dealers who take ideal care of their animals and are producing smooth tortoises to succeed and dominate the market, we HAVE to STOP buying from the other guys! I know its hard to do sometimes, but unless these "other guys" get with the program and stop raising their baby tortoises on alfalfa pellets and iceberg lettuce in a high heat, low humidity cages, the only way is to hit them where it hurts: their pocket books.

In the end, it is your decision. I don't think anyone will fault you either way.

 

[Blakem]

There's many ways to look at this. First of all, what was the exact arrangement you had with this shop owner upon him bringing in this particular animal for you to "look at?" Now you both asked for the "smoothest one they had." The reality of it is that this animal could very well be that! It's just simply not as smooth as a tortoise could be, and certainly not the greatest testament of the breeders and/or suppliers husbandry. Whatever the case, in terms of sheer product and service, if it is not what you really want, no one is making you buy it. After all, it is your money and yours to do with as you please. No one can fault you for that. Hopefully, your shop owner will understand.

Now to address your other questions. Pyramiding is irreversible. There's no amount of good diet, proper lighting and ideal humidity that can "cure" whatever pyramiding is already there. However, in a fairly young animal, all those things can prevent it from getting worse, and over time, the new smooth growth of the shell will dominate and after a decade or so, one could hardly tell that a juvenile sulcata had any bumpiness. Also, I haven't seen the photos yet, but a sulcata with pyramiding doesn't equal a sulcata on its death bed. Like I said, usually at about a year of age, whatever damage done is done, but proper husbandry can prevent it from then on and as the years go by, you'll have a relatively smooth tortoise.

However, going back to the first thing...if this is indeed the smoothest tortoise that supplier has, and you decide to buy it, you are giving that supplier your business. IN the grand scheme of things, if we want the breeders and dealers who take ideal care of their animals and are producing smooth tortoises to succeed and dominate the market, we HAVE to STOP buying from the other guys! I know its hard to do sometimes, but unless these "other guys" get with the program and stop raising their baby tortoises on alfalfa pellets and iceberg lettuce in a high heat, low humidity cages, the only way is to hit them where it hurts: their pocket books.

In the end, it is your decision. I don't think anyone will fault you either way.

Well said!

 

[dan bristow]

---

Here's the photos. Taken on a iPhone so I'm sorry for quality.

Thankyou all for the quick replies with great info and answers...this forum is something else compared to the uk ones on tortoises!

 

[dmmj]

He is not that bad looking, def. one to consider IMHO.

 

[Blakem]

I think it's a good looking tortoise.

 

[Tom]

Student, said it best. I agree on every point.

Having seen the pics, I would not buy that animal. To get him looking that way he had to be horribly raised in a "desert" environment. If you can get a brand new hatchling right after it hatches, and then simulate the warm humid African rainy season, you will have the smoothest sulcata in the UK. Everyone who sees it will want to know how you did it.

You can find the care sheet for how to do it at the top of the sulcata page or in my signature below.

 

[dan bristow]

I think it's a good looking tortoise.

Yes I'm really liking the dark shell,I've only ever seen light coloured shells before.
Im going to give him a througher inspection tomorrow and go from there...

---

Student, said it best. I agree on every point.

Having seen the pics, I would not buy that animal. To get him looking that way he had to be horribly raised in a "desert" environment. If you can get a brand new hatchling right after it hatches, and then simulate the warm humid African rainy season, you will have the smoothest sulcata in the UK. Everyone who sees it will want to know how you did it.

You can find the care sheet for how to do it at the top of the sulcata page or in my signature below.

Thanks Tom, it's having seen how you do it that made me make this post in the first place so I'm pleased you replied.
I guess my main thing is the feeling of guilt- turning the tortoise down and then it going on to live a miserable life( possibly) with someone else. Daft I know as you can't control what happens with every animal,but still.....

 

[Tom]

I would not feel bad about turning down a tortoise that was raised all wrong and poorly cared for. I would hope the seller/breeder would learn lesson from you, as to why you passed on this tortoise. I hope that your shop, or you, can pass on that we have now figured out how to raise them properly, and it's really not difficult.

The dark color almost always fades in time by the way. A lot of new growth comes in that way.

 

[revdrlon]

Seeing that picture genuinely made me feel bad. I cannot even imagine how it was raised. That breeder needs to be shut down. If I saw something like that at a local shop they would have to have the police drag me out.

---

That picture made me mad enough I have to add to my original post. When I got my little guy from one of my local shops he was being cared for in a bad way,dry walnut substrate, no water dish, and a diet of iceberg. Even then he had no noticeable pyramiding. It seems one would almost have to try to get that level of pyramiding. My guy was only 3 months old so I'm sure I got to him just in time. I couldn't bring myself to buy the tortoise pictured as I would not be able to afford the cost of any treatment for possible health issues, but someone needs to save him. If you can afford it then get it just to get him out of there.

 

[Blakem]

I am one to feel bad as well for a tortoise that has been raised that way. But, I cannot help but think that it could have a great life and be the best tortoise. I do completely understand Tom and students points! You have no idea the background of that tortoise.

 

[dmmj]

The dark shell is most likely from not getting enough sunlight, as it gets more it will more than likely lighten up, I don't think it will stay that dark.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

My two cents. Yes, it is disappointing to get an animal that is not in the condition you were expecting. OTOH, you now have the opportunity to provide competent care for a tortoise who needs it. Shipping him back might further stress him out, and make it more difficult for him to thrive. I would let the dealer know about this, but forgive him this oversight, and give this young sulcata a fresh shot at life.

There is some pyramiding there, which is technically irreversible. However, as mentioned above, in time the growing sulcata's corrected growth will make this pyramiding seem less noticeable.

Moreover - and here's the kicker - since sulcatas are a burrowing species, if you let your guy dig outside, he may actually be able to wear down his carapace to a nearly normal appearance over time! This happens with Gopherus species, Russians, and sulcatas, too. IMHO, he is not that bad off. Give him the husbandry he needs, and he can turn out great.

 

[tyrs4u]

Aw healthy cue thing... I'd keep it, and agree with the hatchling idea. If you have room and commitment I say keep the cute bugger and just get a hatchling when you can.

 

[l0velesly]

It makes feel sad to imagine if all the breeder's torts are raised all pyramided! Someone needs to tell him/her how to raise them correctly. You can always keep your little guy and give him a better life!

 

[jason g.]

į āgŗęę wįţђ şęŋdįŋg įţ bāçķ ţo ţђę bŗęędęŗ ţo pŗovę ā poįŋţ āŋd lęţ ţђęm ķŋow āş ţom şāįd ţђāţ pęoplę ƒįgųŗęd oųţ ђow ţo ŗāįşę ţђęm şmooţђ. į ƒollowęd įţ by ţђę lęţţęŗ āŋd my bāby looķş pŗęţţy şmooţђ. węll āll bųţ ţempuratures āŗę ђāŗd ţo ķęęp çoŋşţāŋţ. įŋdįāŋā węāţђęŗ şųçķş. oŋçę į ђād ђįm/ ђęŗ įŋ my ђāŋdş įţ woųld bę ђāŗd ţo lęţ įţ go ęvęŋ įŋ ђįş/ђęŗ çoŋdįţįoŋ. şђe/ђę įş çųţę ţђoųgђ.