When does it end.. (shell rot)

[mike taylor]

You did an awesome job . This is what I use weekly to wash my tortoise . (See picture) It will help keep rot away .

 

[Randi]

That's exactly what I used.
You would continue use once weekly just for general hygiene?

 

[Whayla]

I have changed my substrate, stopped misting the tank especially where Tortuga sleeps or lounges (just pouring watering in the corners to keep humidity up but the top layer is always completely dry), and have been treating her every day. She is now on peat moss.
Today, I noticed that her plastron is no longer looking better... In my opinion it is looking worse.
Can the fungus become resistant to treatment? Should I change the substrate again, seriously soak the whole table in alcohol, and not let her back in for a few more weeks? Keeping her in a steralite tub or something to monitor and keep her 100% dry? She lives in a two story tortoise table that I made from wood. Could the fungus spores be inside of the wood and therefore I will never rid myself of the problem without changing her environment completely?

I am beginning to feel like I am not fit to keep my girl. I am so distraught and saddened. I love my tortoise with all of my heart, seriously sometimes too much.....
Am I a terrible person for thinking that someone out there could rehabilitate her better than I can? Should I look into facilities that could take her?

Please don't think I am a horrible person, or that I want to rid myself of the situation. I am not stating that I am getting rid of Tortuga, nor that want to. I am extremely emotional right now and really need some sound advice on what I should do.

 

[ascott]

Wood is a fantastic sponge for alot of fungus and bacterium....I personally do not like wood for this very reason. In an open area the wood would have time to dry out some with the sun and heat of the day...in a captive environment this is not the case...we add water to offer humidity (and if you do this over the entire enclosure then there is little chance for any dry out space) then that sits and ferments...the tortoise eats, drinks defecates all in the same soil...with no opportunity to move away from it.....it is difficult to say what is the catalyst for the problem...but the best observation is to look at what is going on in the set up and understanding and accepting that it is not working...not failure, just not working....so, the best way to get a different outcome is to do something different...right? AND UNDERSTAND THAT I AM NOT TELLING YOU WHAT I THINK IS FACT, IT IS NOT...I am simply taking in all that you are sharing and trying to offer suggestions, okay....so no one bother wasting your damn time lecturing me, thank you.

"If it were me" I would get a completely different enclosure (a rubbermaid tote new from the big box store...like a 55 gallon tub at the least)...I would line the bottom with plain ole dirt/soil from outside (just make sure you are not scooping from any ant homes) I would like the bottom of the tub with at least 5-6 inches of the earth..then leave it alone....continue to soak, gently clean the tort with a soft bristle brush and some warm water and plain ole soap (like dawn liquid soap) and be sure to make a college effort to not get any of the soap in the eyes...I would soak the tort first in a warm water bath for like 20 minutes and no less (it takes at least this amount of time to wet and loosen dirt and crud)...and while this is going on, I would get a bowl of warm water mixed with dawn and have a soft tooth brush handy...when the tort is done soaking, I would then gently use the dawn and water mix and gently do the overall cleaning of the tort....then rinse the tort completely with warm water until the tort is completely clear of any residue from the soap mixture....then I would dry the tort completely...then I would apply a thin layer of the anti fungal cream to the affected area on the tort...I would then allow that to dry...then apply the tort to the tote environment (with basking light set up for day and night heat source for night)....I would then make offering of food but would not set a large water dish in the enclosure but would instead place a small dish of water strictly for drinking and not large enough for the tort to get into....and then I would plan to do this for the next few months...sounds tedious and it will certainly weigh on you during that time....but this is what I would do if faced with what you and the tort are dealing with....I would then dump all of the substrate and any porous items from the old enclosure and perhaps rethink the more permanent housing when the tort shell have recovered....also, I would make sure to gently scrub the tort before you allow him daily warm water soaks so that the cream will not be ingested easily....

Fungus and bacterium are a nasty bunch...tenacious as any ruffian tortoise and as annoying as sun in your eyes while driving...just a real pain..so my best advice to you, hunker down, get a grip on the fact you will need to defeat the enemy and do what has to be done and be more tenacious than it....that is is, that is all I can offer and I wish you and tort ALL THE BEST WISHES AND GODSPEED ON RECOVERY....

 

[Whayla]

I want to thank you Ascott, not only for your advice, but your kindness. Seeing my tort in any danger is really taking a toll on my mental well being too, so thank you for offering constructive criticism without making me feel like a terrible mother.

I think your advice is exactly what I needed. I think you're right about wood, and I am willing to try anything to keep my Toot happy and healthy. Right now she is in a huge tortoise table about five feet to six feet long, two stories tall. Two to three feet wide. I want to keep her in a relatively large environment, where she can get the exercise she needs for the winter.
Anyone molded two totes together? Ideas on double layers still without the convenience of wood?

I appreciate the warm wishes and for making me feel a lot better. I was losing it. *obviously*

 

[ascott]

I want to thank you Ascott, not only for your advice, but your kindness. Seeing my tort in any danger is really taking a toll on my mental well being too, so thank you for offering constructive criticism without making me feel like a terrible mother.

I think your advice is exactly what I needed. I think you're right about wood, and I am willing to try anything to keep my Toot happy and healthy. Right now she is in a huge tortoise table about five feet to six feet long, two stories tall. Two to three feet wide. I want to keep her in a relatively large environment, where she can get the exercise she needs for the winter.
Anyone molded two totes together? Ideas on double layers still without the convenience of wood?

I appreciate the warm wishes and for making me feel a lot
better. I was losing it. *obviously*

I have seen here where folks have combined two of the totes by either cutting a part of each end out and connecting with a tunnel..or by completely cutting the entire end off of each one and combining them together by layering one within the other at the cut ends...the particulars of the actual mechanics I do not know???

 

[Whayla]

Those are both great ideas!
You have been a wonderful help. Much love..

 

[Randi]

Is your tortoise still eating and/or acting normal?

Is Dawn soap safe? I've been told never to use any dish soap near any reptile. I can't imagine it being very effective in ridding fungus and bacteria.

Alcohol in my opinion would be pretty rough on the shell. I'd use a betadine solution diluted til it looks like iced tea. Scrub the shell with a toothbrush after soaking. Betadine arrests the fungus but because it inhibits new growth, it's best to keep it to a minimum. I used it a few times then started using chlorhexidine baths and scrubs. It's easy on the shell for frequent use. This will keep the fungus away and promote new skin growth. You would do these scrubs every night or every second night. Applying atheletes foot cream (clotrimazole I believe) will help with the fungus. You definitely want to treat so it doesn't spread further into the plastron.

The environment sounds too moist. Humidity doesn't mean moist objects or substrates, really. It's moisture in the air. I make up for that in bathing mine a few times daily. I live in AB, Canada and it's unrealistic to have an 80% humidity in her tank. I mist one side of her tank and it's really only her moss and log. I wait til it's completely dry until I mist that side again. She has a large dish to soak in inside her tank. I keep it as dry as possible right now to prevent the fungus from coming back.

I'm not an expert, this is my opinion and it is what I had done to cure mine. Please don't be so hard on yourself. There's so much to learn! And how can one know unless they run into a snag along the way? I hope I could offer some advice. Best of luck with your baby.

 

[ascott]

Is your tortoise still eating and/or acting normal?

Is Dawn soap safe? I've been told never to use any dish soap near any reptile. I can't imagine it being very effective in ridding fungus and bacteria.

Alcohol in my opinion would be pretty rough on the shell. I'd use a betadine solution diluted til it looks like iced tea. Scrub the shell with a toothbrush after soaking. Betadine arrests the fungus but because it inhibits new growth, it's best to keep it to a minimum. I used it a few times then started using chlorhexidine baths and scrubs. It's easy on the shell for frequent use. This will keep the fungus away and promote new skin growth. You would do these scrubs every night or every second night. Applying atheletes foot cream (clotrimazole I believe) will help with the fungus. You definitely want to treat so it doesn't spread further into the plastron.

The environment sounds too moist. Humidity doesn't mean moist objects or substrates, really. It's moisture in the air. I make up for that in bathing mine a few times daily. I live in AB, Canada and it's unrealistic to have an 80% humidity in her tank. I mist one side of her tank and it's really only her moss and log. I wait til it's completely dry until I mist that side again. She has a large dish to soak in inside her tank. I keep it as dry as possible right now to prevent the fungus from coming back.

I'm not an expert, this is my opinion and it is what I had done to cure mine. Please don't be so hard on yourself. There's so much to learn! And how can one know unless they run into a snag along the way? I hope I could offer some advice. Best of luck with your baby.

It is gentle on the eye areas and it is also gentle on the skin...it is good at cutting through alot of materials...you would be surprised on the many uses of this gentle soap....sometimes, there is nothing like some simple gentle soap and water....please understand, I am suggesting Dawn and not just any run of the mill dish detergent...

 

[Whayla]

Is your tortoise still eating and/or acting normal?

Is Dawn soap safe? I've been told never to use any dish soap near any reptile. I can't imagine it being very effective in ridding fungus and bacteria.

Alcohol in my opinion would be pretty rough on the shell. I'd use a betadine solution diluted til it looks like iced tea. Scrub the shell with a toothbrush after soaking. Betadine arrests the fungus but because it inhibits new growth, it's best to keep it to a minimum. I used it a few times then started using chlorhexidine baths and scrubs. It's easy on the shell for frequent use. This will keep the fungus away and promote new skin growth. You would do these scrubs every night or every second night. Applying atheletes foot cream (clotrimazole I believe) will help with the fungus. You definitely want to treat so it doesn't spread further into the plastron.

The environment sounds too moist. Humidity doesn't mean moist objects or substrates, really. It's moisture in the air. I make up for that in bathing mine a few times daily. I live in AB, Canada and it's unrealistic to have an 80% humidity in her tank. I mist one side of her tank and it's really only her moss and log. I wait til it's completely dry until I mist that side again. She has a large dish to soak in inside her tank. I keep it as dry as possible right now to prevent the fungus from coming back.

I'm not an expert, this is my opinion and it is what I had done to cure mine. Please don't be so hard on yourself. There's so much to learn! And how can one know unless they run into a snag along the way? I hope I could offer some advice. Best of luck with your baby.

The thread, would answer your questions and concerns, Randi.
Yes, my tortoise is eating and acting normally. I noticed the signs of fungus early, so she was not acting out of the usual. As for soaking my Tortuga in alcohol, I would never do such a thing. I was talking about soaking my TORTOISE TABLE, not my actual animal; I am not uneducated.
Dish soap is not only effective, it is a lot less harmful on their skin and eyes than most antibacterial washes. Take Betadine for example; you said so yourself that it doesn't allow new growth to form. That is why you are only supposed to use it ONCE. It is also very harmful to the animals eyes and can dry their skin out. I have only used Betadine on my tortoise at the first signs of shell rot, then continue treatment with chlorhexidine (hibiclens) and an antifungal.
I am treating my tortoise, and have been since I noticed signs.
I appreciate the response and well wishes!! Glad we are both doing what we can to make sure the little ones are happy and healthy.

 

[Randi]

I feel you have taken what I responded with the wrong way.. it wasn't said to make you feel inferior. I'm not sure where the miscommunication was but maybe I can clarify.

Although Betadine doesn't allow for regrowth, it's very effective in arresting the fungus. Normally the treatment with Betadine is a day or two. The amount of time Betadine is used for corresponds with how severe the fungus is. I've seen cases where a vet has recommended it for two weeks. Chlorhexidine is then used as it allows for regrowth.

Well.. ideally you would bathe your tortoise normally, then you would change and lower the water and put Betadine in. They would be supervised because you are scrubbing their plastron or wherever they have fungus. The risk of it getting into eyes seems quite low.

As per "drying" the site out, you'd want that at the beginning to help with the fungus. Fungus thrives on moisture. You would apply cream lightly after scrubbing and allow the tortoise to dry.

Where I live, one mention of reptiles and dish soap and people cringe. Never had a vet recommend it. To my knowledge they use Hibiclens soap. I've never read about "dish" soap being an ok alternative but if it is a part of your practice, by all means continue.

With all that being said, I only replied to this to give advice. If it is reoccuring, then there is likely a variable to change. I'll be the first to say I don't know everything and I'm willing to learn. I'm not an expert. This was the treatment I have used successfully with my little one and was hoping to help. Hope no offence was taken with anything I've said.

 

[Alaskamike]

I read this thread with interest. Being in South Florida fungus / molds can be a problem in the rainy season especially.

My outside heated box for my torts is plywood. I do keep a water pan in there for humidity and open top for sun and air out most days. They come and go out of it at will into their yards.

Having been in the medical profession I am a great believer in bleach. I used a 1:10 solution to wipe down the inner plywood , let it air/ dry well, then put in my substrata ( orchard bark).

When I clean it every few months or so, I will do this again. A 1:10 bleach solution kills almost everything. Mold- fungus - bacteria - most viruses will quickly die and not easily grow back. You cannot apply directly to shell however !

But to keep wood enclosures from this problem. It works for me.