Worried about my Greek Tortoise (not eating)

[Aoshi]

Hi. I'm new to this forum but I must thank all of you for the valuable information I've learned in the 4 days I've been reading this forum.

I bought my Greek at PetSmart about 3 weeks ago. His name is Leto (I'm pretty sure he's a boy because of the tail length. I'll get a picture when I get home). He's pretty small. The people at the store told us he is the smallest they ever had. I don't think he's a baby, but he's definitely young considering the size of some greek tortoises I've seen here.

We bought him a terrarium and we bought him a combo UVA/UVB bulb and a flukers fixture. The temp was around 95 in his basking but once we checked the temperature of the right side of the aquarium we noticed it was way too cold for him so we bought a ceramic heater to help today and a new set of thermometers. He has a hiding spot to the right but he mostly buries himself in the combo of bark and coconut fiber soil as he pleases.

We try to leave him alone and let him get accustomed to his new home. For the first couple of days he was held and let out a lot onto my bed to walk around. I read here it's best to give them time to adjust so I stopped with that. I give him food (so far the only thing he will eat is the packaged fruit and veggie mix but I've tried spring mix in little bits and yesterday I got him to eat a bit of a raspberry). I have once sprayed his food with a zilla vitamin suppliment because I was worried the little guy would get sick just having the rehydrated stuff he only eats. I give him luke warm soaks every few days. Sometimes he drinks, sometimes he doesn't which I guess is normal. He would poop every time except the past 3 days. No poop to clean up in the soak or in his terrarium. His shell is nice and hard, he is not soft except for his squishy parts. His color is orange beyond his neck and behind his scales. He is vibrant as ever, not pale. At a casual glance he looks healthy.

He's been very active up until now. Now refuses to eat (a VERY SMALL amount goes missing, whereas before he would eat his whole dish). I tried to hand feed him some of his food today but he just looked away in refuse. He has mostly become idle (spends his time buried, sleeping whereas before he was always running around like crazy a bit after the basking light turned on).

My deepest concern is the white around his mouth and the fact that he appears to be wheezing when I put him in for his soaks. Am I scaring the little guy? Could he be sick? This is my first tortoise so I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to this kind of stuff (aside from what I see here). Any help would be appreciated as I'm quite fond of him. I bought him to be my friend for life so I just want to do what's best for him.

 

[Rocky-the-tort]

Re: Worried about my Greek Tortoise

In am sorry to hear about your tortoise!

sent from meeee!

 

[Aoshi]

RE: Worried about my Greek Tortoise

In am sorry to hear about your tortoise!

sent from meeee!

Thanks. He's such a cute little guy. I hope he gets better soon (if he even is sick and not just being fussy or shellshocked-- pardon the pun because of moving or my interaction with him. I am thinking I will take him to the vet on Tuesday just to get him checked out. In the meantime does anyone know anything that might help get his appetite up? He didn't eat at all today

 

[GBtortoises]

RE: Worried about my Greek Tortoise

Hi. I'm new to this forum but I must thank all of you for the valuable information I've learned in the 4 days I've been reading this forum.

I bought my Greek at PetSmart about 3 weeks ago. His name is Leto (I'm pretty sure he's a boy because of the tail length. I'll get a picture when I get home). He's pretty small. The people at the store told us he is the smallest they ever had. I don't think he's a baby, but he's definitely young considering the size of some greek tortoises I've seen here.
He would have to be at least 4" straight carapace length to be legally imported which would make him at least 5 years old and probably older.

We bought him a terrarium and we bought him a combo UVA/UVB bulb and a flukers fixture. The temp was around 95 in his basking but once we checked the temperature of the right side of the aquarium we noticed it was way too cold for him so we bought a ceramic heater to help today and a new set of thermometers. He has a hiding spot to the right but he mostly buries himself in the combo of bark and coconut fiber soil as he pleases.
The basking temperature is okay, but could stand to be warmer around 100-105 degrees. Especially considering the possible respiratory problem that you mention below.

We try to leave him alone and let him get accustomed to his new home. For the first couple of days he was held and let out a lot onto my bed to walk around. I read here it's best to give them time to adjust so I stopped with that. I give him food (so far the only thing he will eat is the packaged fruit and veggie mix but I've tried spring mix in little bits and yesterday I got him to eat a bit of a raspberry). I have once sprayed his food with a zilla vitamin suppliment because I was worried the little guy would get sick just having the rehydrated stuff he only eats. I give him luke warm soaks every few days. Sometimes he drinks, sometimes he doesn't which I guess is normal. He would poop every time except the past 3 days. No poop to clean up in the soak or in his terrarium. His shell is nice and hard, he is not soft except for his squishy parts. His color is orange beyond his neck and behind his scales. He is vibrant as ever, not pale. At a casual glance he looks healthy.
It takes tortoises weeks or longer to actually acclimate to a new environment, not just a few days. The longer you can go without handling and disturbing him the better off it would befor the tortoise. Greeks should not be fed fruits, especially a newly acquired one that very likely has a reduced immune system and whose digestive system is may not be functioning as it normally would. Their diet should consist of about 85% good quality, varied greens. An even higher percentage would be fine too. The rest of the diet should consist of good quality, varied vegetables to provide a broader spectrum of vitamins and minerals.

He's been very active up until now. Now refuses to eat (a VERY SMALL amount goes missing, whereas before he would eat his whole dish). I tried to hand feed him some of his food today but he just looked away in refuse. He has mostly become idle (spends his time buried, sleeping whereas before he was always running around like crazy a bit after the basking light turned on).
The inactivity and reluctance to eat may be due to illness and or being over-handled while still acclimating.

My deepest concern is the white around his mouth and the fact that he appears to be wheezing when I put him in for his soaks. Am I scaring the little guy? Could he be sick? This is my first tortoise so I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to this kind of stuff (aside from what I see here). Any help would be appreciated as I'm quite fond of him. I bought him to be my friend for life so I just want to do what's best for him.

This actually sounds like the early stages of a respiratory problem. Is the white around the mouth bubbles, foam or soft, rubbery consistency or is it chalky or brittle?

 

[sueb4653]

you should go to the vet (someone that has experience with reptiles), if came from Petsmart I can guarantee you he/she has worms and I wouldn't let a respiratory infection get any worse especially if he/she has stopped eating, this is from experience having purchased 2 of my three from Petsmart.
As for eating when he/she is better you can gradually wean off the bad food by adding a little of the good food in with it gradually adding more and more until eventually the bad stuff isn't there. Also try some squash, pumpkin, cactus pads that has been in a blender and chopped up to the same consistence as that freeze died stuff from Petsmart I bet he/she will not be able to resist.
What size terraium do you have him/her in? is it big enough for a greek?

 

[devsharkey]

Worried about my Greek Tortoise

I bought my male Greek, Ptomley, from Petsmart as well. Same problems, except I knew when I went there to get him he had an URI just from listening to him. He was already wheezing when he breathed, so I bought him right quick.
Definitely take your little guy to your exotic vet and get him dewormed and checked out though! That's your best bet!
Good luck!

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

I bought two Greeks from PetSmart, impulsively, last year. I now feel that what I thought was URI was just major stress, and hence the RNS, runny nose syndrome, that they are known for.

After researching big time, and learning how they got from there to here, it is understandable that they would be so stressed and a bit difficult to acclimatize to their new homes. I read about the truck that was confiscated in Jordan with hundreds in the back of the truck rollinbrokerg around. They were returned to the wild by the Princess Alia Foundation. Assuming our PetSmarties have had a similar journey by being plucked from their native land, on to a truck, to the broker, over the air, to the USA ... what a trip they have gad to endure.

Mine would not eat, were skittish ... I thought I would lose them. After reading this forum - manna from heaven - I upped my temps when they were inside, to 90 degrees, gave them as much sunshine as I could, twice daily soaks, morning one with baby food in it, either carrots or squash for half hour, under basking light so they stayed warm and spa-like. Chopped a variety of foods finely and mixed. My two seemed to gravitate towards shredded carrots and would snub the greens so I had to mix things and chop finely so they had variety. Eventually, I added Grassland, but almost had to puree everything to be sure they ate variety.

This was a weeks thing and they finally came around and felt safe and once they felt safe they started eating things like rose petals, hibiscus, grape leaves. I avoided things with oxalates until I knew they were not constipated and were now pooping and flushing things out and were regular. But they were not at first, They were too stressed to even poop. Scary, it was.

I also used binoculars to check on them at first so I was not hovering. I did not want them to wonder if I was going to eat them and add to their stress. Sounds silly, but they do not know what is happening to them and that makes them stress and that stress manifests itself in not eating, not pooping ... not drinking. If it goes long enough, you can lose them. The baby food soaks which I read from Yvonne and Maggie's responses from their rescue work experiences, are.the.best.ever.

For me it was stress and not the dreaded URI and I did not want to add chemical drugs to the mix if they did not need that to get better since I was afraid that would hurt more than help. Hot-humid-hydrated = happy.

---

I want to add, this was my experience. If others who have purchased from PetSmart have for sure had URI, as well as experts suggetions are to treat URI, please do so with a vet visit. Peace of mind helps a lot with tortoisekeeping. But do try the baby food soaks as I have read here that vet treatments can make them go off food. Hot, humid, hydrated still helps for happy. : )

 

[Aoshi]

Hello all and thank you for the valuable advice and knowledge. I've definitely learned a lot. Here is a candid picture of Leto or as we have affectionately nicknamed him recently "Lil Grump" http://i.imgur.com/chYc9dR.jpg

I have upped the temp of the basking area to ~105 by putting more bark in to raise the area a bit. Aside from his soaks I do not handle him (I can't get him to go in the water without nudging him but once he's in the water he seems to like to roam around in it a bit until he's done). I've tried chopping up everything I give: fresh carrots, spring mix, a little iceberg for water, green beans, bok choy, peas, found some squash and pumpkin and tried that too in his warm lamp area. He hasn't eaten at all for about two days and I replace his food twice a day, 7AM, 1PM to make sure it doesn't become unappetizing to him. I'm not sure how to the vitamin soaks or baby food soaks but I'm soaking him twice daily.

The white around his mouth is harder. It's a thin coat. It reminds me of a birds beak in a way. I don't dare touch at his mouth to see if it's calcium like stuff. I've only seen a bubble come out of his nose once and it was while soaking. I've read somewhere here that it's okay to bubble sometimes.

My terrarium is big I think.. the biggest I could buy. If you consider the little guy is tucked in the log in this pic: http://i.imgur.com/ji3yhJp.jpg I normally have a big pink soaker in there for him on the cool side but he kept trying to get out of it the wrong way for several minutes, several times now. :/ I'm going to look for a soaker that is no so big.

I had today off so I wanted to put him under candid observation instead of just immediately taking him to the vet this morning, he mostly just sleeps. He will go from under the lamp to his log to being buried in the cool area to back to the lamp so at least he's making those rounds. His wheezing is more noticeable now when soaking him and even as he moves inside the terrarium. :/

I'm going to take him to the vet now. The only place that does Reptiles around here is the Banfield located in the PetSmart and they are open until 7PM. I do not know if they are bad/good. Does anyone have any experience with them?

Thanks again everyone!

 

[sueb4653]

where are you located?

 

[Aoshi]

Provo Utah

where are you located?

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Don't forget to take your receipt when you go to the vet because it might be covered since you bought your tortoise less than a month ago. Also, one of my tortoises loves shredded carrots. I wonder if you can try that in the interest of getting food in to the belly. The soaks are easy, mix in baby food to your warm water, or bird vitamins. They can absorb from their cloaca, their rear vent that does everything, or drink it and you get some good stuff in to the system. Again, mine took weeks to get acclimated to their new place with moi. Now they walk up to me, the lotta good food giver! So gratifying because I thought for a bit that I would surely be a Greek tortoise killer. Scary weeks I had, the impulsive pet buyer. Guilty. But now happy! I love my two. : )

 

[theelectraco]

Don't forget to take your receipt when you go to the vet because it might be covered since you bought your tortoise less than a month ago. Also, one of my tortoises loves shredded carrots. I wonder if you can try that in the interest of getting food in to the belly. The soaks are easy, mix in baby food to your warm water, or bird vitamins. They can absorb from their cloaca, their rear vent that does everything, or drink it and you get some good stuff in to the system. Again, mine took weeks to get acclimated to their new place with moi. Now they walk up to me, the lotta good food giver! So gratifying because I thought for a bit that I would surely be a Greek tortoise killer. Scary weeks I had, the impulsive pet buyer. Guilty. But now happy! I love my two. : )

The guarantee is only for 14 days, I doubt they would cover the bills for anything past that because its pretty much the owners responsibility/fault after those 14 days.

As far as Banfield goes, it really just depends on if the particular vet their specializes in reptiles, I would call and ask to speak to the vet who would be seeing it and see what their experience with reptiles and tortoises is.

Also, I would cover your screen with foil to keep the temps up and trap the heat.

 

[sueb4653]

Don't forget to take your receipt when you go to the vet because it might be covered since you bought your tortoise less than a month ago. Also, one of my tortoises loves shredded carrots. I wonder if you can try that in the interest of getting food in to the belly. The soaks are easy, mix in baby food to your warm water, or bird vitamins. They can absorb from their cloaca, their rear vent that does everything, or drink it and you get some good stuff in to the system. Again, mine took weeks to get acclimated to their new place with moi. Now they walk up to me, the lotta good food giver! So gratifying because I thought for a bit that I would surely be a Greek tortoise killer. Scary weeks I had, the impulsive pet buyer. Guilty. But now happy! I love my two. : )

The guarantee is only for 14 days, I doubt they would cover the bills for anything past that because its pretty much the owners responsibility/fault after those 14 days.

As far as Banfield goes, it really just depends on if the particular vet their specializes in reptiles, I would call and ask to speak to the vet who would be seeing it and see what their experience with reptiles and tortoises is.

Also, I would cover your screen with foil to keep the temps up and trap the heat.

Did you go to the vet? how is he he?

 

[Aoshi]

Well we took him to a specialist recommended by Banfield called "A Caring Vet". The vet said the white around his mouth was just shedding but he was super concerned about the wheezing as I was. He said he could give him antibiotics for the wheezing but he wanted to x-ray him to be sure. Apparently he has the flu and it could have had it for a while. The vet said months even. Little Leto is on antibiotics now and he ate a little fresh veggies today.

The vet agreed that if he didn't start eating more that baby food soaks would work and he definitely agreed I should do more to keep the heat in the terrarium the tin foil seems to be doing the trick.

He moved around a lot more today too I'm working to make absolutely sure that the heat stays up. I've left the ceramic heater on in place of his heat lamp when the sun goes down to give him that added comfort while he's recovering.

I've blended up some fresh stuff for him to eat tomorrow. He seems to like it the best while he's sick (I think it's hard for him to eat whole veggies while he's sick).

 

[sueb4653]

glad to hear he is eating some, what antibiotics did he give you?

 

[Aoshi]

I have to give him 1 small dose of Baytril every other day for the next 18 days.

glad to hear he is eating some, what antibiotics did he give you?

 

[Aoshi]

Leto is very active again. I find he is most active when taken outside of the terrarium like in his bath. He just loves to explore so we bought him a clear rubbermade container so that he can see other parts of the house safely. Yesterday was still and hot so we took him and let him bask in the natural sun outside for just a little bit. He seemed very excited about it.

He's now eating anything I put in front of him and he eats A LOT. I still blend a good chunk of the food until these antibiotics are over and I know for sure he won't have trouble with getting food into him.

Anyway, It looks like Leto is going to be great. Thank you everyone here for all your caring advice. You saved my little buddy