Worried about strange behaviour of baby sulcata

[sully_baby]

Hi, my baby sulcata is 9 months old and I had him since he was 5 months.

He did not grow...at all. Up until Tuesday he was acting perfectly fine though.

He was eating a lot (rustik grub, kale, green mix and had his supplements), daily soaks of 20-30 mins too and generally active and happy.

Since Tuesday he has been spending most of his time in his den where he only used to stay when he was sleeping.

He is now going out of his way to go there and digs. I cover it all up when I take him out and digs it back and goes in there...for the majority of the day...

He ate a bit Tuesday - Thursday but not today. And every day but today he came out at 10:30 - 11:00...today I had to take him out and give him a bath and he went straight back in.

One thing that we changed was home. During most of June and July up until this Monday he stayed at my parents in his enclosure (same one), perfectly normal behaviour and my parents said he never stayed in his den other than when he was sleeping. Since Tuesday, when we brought him to our new home, he has been acting like this....

I am attaching photos of him and his enclosure. His temperature is 30-32 degrees celsius..and humidity at around 55 - 70.

We have an appointment at the vet on Friday August 23rd.

He was 71 grams when we got him and he weighed at his highest 82. Now he is 71 again after a day of not eating...


Please, any advice would be great.

 

[wellington]

You are housing him working and temps too low
He needs to be in a closed chamber enclosure with 80% humidity, basking temp with an incandescent FLOOD bulb that reaches 95-100F and all over day and night temps never lower than 80F.
Get changes made ASAP.

 

[sully_baby]

You are housing him working and temps too low
He needs to be in a closed chamber enclosure with 80% humidity, basking temp with an incandescent FLOOD bulb that reaches 95-100F and all over day and night temps never lower than 80F.
Get changes made ASAP.

Thank you...

This is the light bulb he currently has..

 

[wellington]

Yeah, that may be a problem, to intense. Switch to a straight tube fluorescent for uvb, the incandescent flood for basking and ceramic heat emitter(s) for any added day heat needed and night heat
I will link some threads for you to read

 

[wellington]

Thread 'The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise' https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threa...se-a-sulcata-leopard-or-star-tortoise.181497/

 

[wellington]

Thread 'Closed "Chambers"' https://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/

 

[Tortellini0000]

Yeah, that may be a problem, to intense. Switch to a straight tube fluorescent for uvb, the incandescent flood for basking and ceramic heat emitter(s) for any added day heat needed and night heat
I will link some threads for you to read

So curious why those type would be marketed and say it can be used with a tortoise if it’s doing more harm than good. If a new person saw that they would assume it was right - i would have before finding this forum. So much wrong information out there. It’s sad- I recently joined a bunch of Facebook tortoises groups and the amount of babies with open tables and the wrong lighting not to mention two together is crazy! I tried to share this forum a bunch of times to provide more
Information however, i did get a bunch of backlash so iv chosen to remove myself from the Facebook groups. But I feel bad for people who just don’t know and just want the best for their tortoises.

 

[wellington]

So curious why those type would be marketed and say it can be used with a tortoise if it’s doing more harm than good. If a new person saw that they would assume it was right - i would have before finding this forum. So much wrong information out there. It’s sad- I recently joined a bunch of Facebook tortoises groups and the amount of babies with open tables and the wrong lighting not to mention two together is crazy! I tried to share this forum a bunch of times to provide more
Information however, i did get a bunch of backlash so iv chosen to remove myself from the Facebook groups. But I feel bad for people who just don’t know and just want the best for their tortoises.

Yep, that's what we deal with all the time. Sadly it's all about money. The pet stores don't care if they are good or not or don't know, just want to offer as much as possible. Plus some are okay for other reptiles, just not tortoises. Manufacturers kinda the same reasons as the pet stores.
As for FB and other groups, oh they are the worst for info and for trying to educate.
Sadly you aren't the only one to get wrong info from the get go. So many of us have. It stinks, but luckily, this forums info can help you get the better stuff and give better care.

 

[sully_baby]

Yeah, that may be a problem, to intense. Switch to a straight tube fluorescent for uvb, the incandescent flood for basking and ceramic heat emitter(s) for any added day heat needed and night heat
I will link some threads for you to read

Yeah, that may be a problem, to intense. Switch to a straight tube fluorescent for uvb, the incandescent flood for basking and ceramic heat emitter(s) for any added day heat needed and night heat
I will link some threads for you to read

Thank you! We had the 120 one up until today, and we changed to 160 because we thought he might need more heat, but if we take him out of his den where he digs and stays in a little hole so to speak he digs himself in, he immediately walks back there.

Yesterday he walked out 2 or 3 times by himself...today I had to take him out each time and absolutely no eating today...the previous days he still stayed in the den most of the time but he ate and acted active during bath time...

We called now and secured an emergency appointment tomorrow afternoon...

 

[wellington]

First I don't think you need a vet as much as you need to get him set up correctly with the right closed chamber enclosure, correct temps correct bulbs and correct humidity.
Most vets know nothing about tortoises and the care. They may do more harm then good.
Babies sleep a lot. They wake, bask, eat, roam a bit and go back to sleep. They do this 2 to 3 times a day.
However, without correct basking and over all temps,they won't. Basking they need to digest their food proper or they will not keep eating. It also keeps their insides working right.
Make the changes and see how she does.

 

[wellington]

Oh and daily warm water soaks.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thank you! We had the 120 one up until today, and we changed to 160 because we thought he might need more heat, but if we take him out of his den where he digs and stays in a little hole so to speak he digs himself in, he immediately walks back there.

Yesterday he walked out 2 or 3 times by himself...today I had to take him out each time and absolutely no eating today...the previous days he still stayed in the den most of the time but he ate and acted active during bath time...

We called now and secured an emergency appointment tomorrow afternoon...

That's the trouble with all-in-one lamps - if your tortoise needs more heat you can't just lower the lamp or take a higher wattage one because UV levels increase as well. 160W should be around 1.5 ft above substrate and 100W - around 1 ft. (these are rough numbers) for comfortable UV index level.

 

[sully_baby]

First I don't think you need a vet as much as you need to get him set up correctly with the right closed chamber enclosure, correct temps correct bulbs and correct humidity.
Most vets know nothing about tortoises and the care. They may do more harm then good.
Babies sleep a lot. They wake, bask, eat, roam a bit and go back to sleep. They do this 2 to 3 times a day.
However, without correct basking and over all temps,they won't. Basking they need to digest their food proper or they will not keep eating. It also keeps their insides working right.
Make the changes and see how she does.

Hmmm, my main worry is that the activity levels just suddenly dropped...and she is just staying in the den like in the photo I first attached...I also think it could be the fact we changed houses and moved her from my parents...maybe she was used to the previous environment, people...

I understand that I need to change the light/heat sources, of course, looking for those.

Also, I have done some health tests with samples and swabs I sent to a lab and we wanted those interpreted. We did those because we were worried about the growth..or lack of...would it be worth attaching those here? thank you...

 

[wellington]

Yes, it could be she has been without proper temps long enough and it has now caught up with her and her insides are not working/digesting properly and she is feeling blah, that's more human terms lol
Get the temps and humidity correct. Correct temps and hydration/soaks/humidity are very important.

 

[TammyJ]

Exactly everything Wellington said is what your lovely little tortoise needs. If you take this delicate little creature to the wrong vet (and this is around 90 percent of all vets when tortoises are involved) they will use your baby as learning experience for themselves, give him unnecessary and harmful treatment and injections and quite likely, kill him. If you manage to find the right vet, wonderful, but it's pretty uncommon!

 

[Tom]

Hmmm, my main worry is that the activity levels just suddenly dropped...and she is just staying in the den like in the photo I first attached...I also think it could be the fact we changed houses and moved her from my parents...maybe she was used to the previous environment, people...

I understand that I need to change the light/heat sources, of course, looking for those.

Also, I have done some health tests with samples and swabs I sent to a lab and we wanted those interpreted. We did those because we were worried about the growth..or lack of...would it be worth attaching those here? thank you...

The new has might have something to do with it, but that should be minimal if the baby is in the same enclosure.

Those light bulbs sometimes make zero UV, and other times WAYYYY too much UV. They aren't reliable and shouldn't be used. If that bulb is burning your tortoises eyes, it would cause it to hide in the shade and not come out to eat. In addition to that, those bulbs cause them to pyramid because of the type of heat and light they emit. You've got to get rid of the bulb and replace it with the correct types ASAP.

Open topped enclosures do not work for this species. They need warm humid conditions. Unless the entire room stays 27C and 80+% humidity all the time, even at night, an open top can't work. That is the most likely reason why you have seen no growth. It is far too dry in there, and likely too cool at night. Sulcatas hatch at the start of the monsoon rainy season over there. Its 100 degrees with torrential rain. They hide in the heavy underbrush where it is hot, wet, and steamy with 100% humidity. Puddles and marshes form, and everything turns green with a few days of the first rain.

What previous posters said about vets is sadly true. They don't understand any of what we are talking about, and this leads to misdiagnosis and mis treatment. There is no semester on tortoise care in vet school and even if there was, they would likely be taught the same wrong info that everyone else finds, like what you found. Sadly, vets often do more harm than good due to their ignorance of tortoises.

Read that thread that Wellington left for you in post #5, and here is even more info explaining all of this. Questions are welcome. If you make the necessary changes, you might still be able to save him:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[sully_baby]

Exactly everything Wellington said is what your lovely little tortoise needs. If you take this delicate little creature to the wrong vet (and this is around 90 percent of all vets when tortoises are involved) they will use your baby as learning experience for themselves, give him unnecessary and harmful treatment and injections and quite likely, kill him. If you manage to find the right vet, wonderful, but it's pretty uncommon!

I am really worried about him, we will go and get their opinion but we won't put him on anything they suggest before we make the temp/light changes and make sure the temperatures are right and light bulbs are not harmful...

We thought he might have some issue with absorbing nutrients hence the lack of groqth but his digestion seemed fine..