Worrying behavior or just personalities?

[davy89]

Ok so the two torts are displaying a bit of different behavior and Im just looking for peoples opinions on whether I should be worried or not.

Roberta is my first one that I got in August, and although a visit to the vet confirmed she was free from a runny nose and parasites and generally seemed quite healthy, I've noticed lately that she's very inactive. When I turn on the lights first thing in the morning, she sleeps on for ages. Then when she does wake up, she just sits there looking around her for ages again. She does eventually get up to go for food, and she's eating regularly, but she doesn't seem to do any walking around apart from this. Even when I put her in the garden to graze and catch a few rays, she moves maybe a few inches from where I put her and just continues to eat away.

Missy on the other hand is the complete opposite. She's up and about as soon as I turn the lights on, she's always walking around just sniffing things, looking around her and being nosy basically, and she wanders off in all directions in the garden. The problem I'm having with her is that she's recently discovered how to climb on top of their turtle hut which is there main hide. Her difficulty is getting back down. She just slides off and straight onto her back she goes. I'm in college during the day so I'm worried that she's going to go on her back when I'm not around to put her back up. She's done it 3 times in the last 20 minutes, and the trauma of falling on her back doesn't seem to put her off doing it again and again. This can't be good for her right? But then again I'm thinking how do they flip themselves back over when they're in the wild? Is there anything I can do to stop her doing this?

Any advice would be a great help, thanks guys

Dave

 

[moswen]

well, it could just be her personality, but roberta could be being bullied by missy, sometimes mental bullying is a very serious situation and you may have to separate them. however, my little girls sleep much more and much longer than moswen, who is always tromping around his enclosure laying claim to anything he sets his eyes on. but this is very common for them, the girls have always been less active than mos.

if roberta is parasite free and her legs aren't swollen, just make sure that it does not appear that missy is bullying her out of food, biting her forelegs, knocking her shell... those types of things. it could just be her personality!

sorry... i don't know what to do about keeping missy from falling and flipping! maybe you should bury their hide further in the ground and dig a small hole right at the entrance going down, so that when she climbs up and free falls to get her thrills, she won't fall very far... or you could just take the hide out while you're gone. or you could just make it impossible for her to climb up on top of her main hide, and stuff it full of sphagnum moss or something else, so that they can still feel snug in there by digging in the moss... sorry! those are my only two suggestions! someone else will come along and solve this situation for you though... welcome to the forum dave!

 

[davy89]

well, it could just be her personality, but roberta could be being bullied by missy, sometimes mental bullying is a very serious situation and you may have to separate them. however, my little girls sleep much more and much longer than moswen, who is always tromping around his enclosure laying claim to anything he sets his eyes on. but this is very common for them, the girls have always been less active than mos.

if roberta is parasite free and her legs aren't swollen, just make sure that it does not appear that missy is bullying her out of food, biting her forelegs, knocking her shell... those types of things. it could just be her personality!

sorry... i don't know what to do about keeping missy from falling and flipping! maybe you should bury their hide further in the ground and dig a small hole right at the entrance going down, so that when she climbs up and free falls to get her thrills, she won't fall very far... or you could just take the hide out while you're gone. or you could just make it impossible for her to climb up on top of her main hide, and stuff it full of sphagnum moss or something else, so that they can still feel snug in there by digging in the moss... sorry! those are my only two suggestions! someone else will come along and solve this situation for you though... welcome to the forum dave!

I was just thinking that, burying the hide a bit deeper in the substrate and I'm gonna do that now They share their food happily, I've never witnessed any biting by either of them, and they sleep in beside each other every night. I thought they were getting on quite well. I had Roberta for a month before I got Missy, could it be that she's a bit weary about the new addition? They've been together 3 weeks now, and like I said I thought everything seemed fine. Her legs aren't swollen or anything.

Thanks for that help, really appreciate it. And I'll keep posted about how they're getting on

 

[Tom]

The lethargy you describe does worry me. I would go to great lengths to make sure she is hydrated and warm up the temps a bit and see if that helps. What are your four temps? Cool side, warm side, hot spot and night? And how are you measuring them?

The flipping off of the hide box problem is simple. Remove it and go buy a $4 plastic shoe box instead. You can make a great humid hide out of this and you will help prevent pyramiding at the same time that you are preventing flipping.

BTW, if a hatchling leopard tortoise were to flip over above ground in the wild, it would almost certainly be eaten in minutes, if not seconds.

 

[Az tortoise compound]

What are the age/ size of the tortoises? It could just be the difference in personality between a male and female tortoise. In my experience, I can see a difference in personality between the sexes before I can sex them by physical characteristics.

 

[Tom]

What are the age/ size of the tortoises? It could just be the difference in personality between a male and female tortoise. In my experience, I can see a difference in personality between the sexes before I can sex them by physical characteristics.

This is very true too.

I might just be a little overly paranoid as we have seen a lot of those sad "Hatchling Failure Syndrome" cases here. I always worry about the babies.

 

[davy89]

The lethargy you describe does worry me. I would go to great lengths to make sure she is hydrated and warm up the temps a bit and see if that helps. What are your four temps? Cool side, warm side, hot spot and night? And how are you measuring them?

The flipping off of the hide box problem is simple. Remove it and go buy a $4 plastic shoe box instead. You can make a great humid hide out of this and you will help prevent pyramiding at the same time that you are preventing flipping.

BTW, if a hatchling leopard tortoise were to flip over above ground in the wild, it would almost certainly be eaten in minutes, if not seconds.

They get soaked every second day and they constantly have access to fresh water, which they regularly avail of.

Temps are: Cool Side 75
Warm side 90
Hot spot 100
Night 65-75
These can vary 5 degree's either side depending on whether the central heating in the house is on or not.
Im measuring these with the electronic Exo Terra thermometers and also disc thermometers.

Like I said she's eating regularly, and when she does get up and walk about she isn't sluggish or anything. And Missy is under the exact same conditions as her and she's very active.

I buried the hide deeper in the substrate which has solved the problem, but I am going to get a plastic shoe box like you suggested and create another, more humid hide. Should I have this on the warm or cool side of the enclosure? And how will I make it humid and keep it humid?

Thanks for the advice Tom, helpful as ever!

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What are the age/ size of the tortoises? It could just be the difference in personality between a male and female tortoise. In my experience, I can see a difference in personality between the sexes before I can sex them by physical characteristics.

Im not sure of the exact age, I've been told by a few people they are roughly one and a half years. They weigh 115g and 120g, both 3 inches long and 7 inches around. What are the differences in characteristics you've noticed?

---

What are the age/ size of the tortoises? It could just be the difference in personality between a male and female tortoise. In my experience, I can see a difference in personality between the sexes before I can sex them by physical characteristics.

They weigh 115g and 120g, both 3 inches long and 7 inches around. What are the differences in characteristics that you've noticed?

 

[Tom]

I'd keep the night temps a little higher. All others temps seem good enough, but try warming things up a little and see if her behavior changes after a few days. Also try leaving the lights on for 13-14 hours for a few days to see if that brings any change.

My observations of young females is that they tend to be more shy, less engaging and interested, and they hide a lot more. This could be what you are seeing. Its all in the subtleties and different people perceive things differently.

 

[davy89]

I'd keep the night temps a little higher. All others temps seem good enough, but try warming things up a little and see if her behavior changes after a few days. Also try leaving the lights on for 13-14 hours for a few days to see if that brings any change.

My observations of young females is that they tend to be more shy, less engaging and interested, and they hide a lot more. This could be what you are seeing. Its all in the subtleties and different people perceive things differently.

Grand, I'll up the night temps a bit and get the lights on a bit earlier in the morning. What about the humid hide, should this be in the warm or cool end? and is aspen bedding suitable to keep moist?

And one more thing and I'll stop annoyin everybody , Is it completely out of the question to keep leopards and sulcatas in the same enclosure? I've found a 4 month old sulcata and am thinking about taking it, but just want to know if I'll need a seperate enclosure or not?

Thanks Tom

 

[Yourlocalpoet]

Doesn't sound like anything to worry about, probably just a difference in personality, also they generally slow down in the winter anyway.
Also, don't buy a sulcata, you're leopards will get big enough and you will have to separate them which will require more space, and seen as you're struggling for tortoise friendly outdoor temps living in Ireland I seriously think having another African species to keep warm will leave you in abject poverty.

 

[Tom]

I'd keep the night temps a little higher. All others temps seem good enough, but try warming things up a little and see if her behavior changes after a few days. Also try leaving the lights on for 13-14 hours for a few days to see if that brings any change.

My observations of young females is that they tend to be more shy, less engaging and interested, and they hide a lot more. This could be what you are seeing. Its all in the subtleties and different people perceive things differently.

Grand, I'll up the night temps a bit and get the lights on a bit earlier in the morning. What about the humid hide, should this be in the warm or cool end? and is aspen bedding suitable to keep moist?

And one more thing and I'll stop annoyin everybody , Is it completely out of the question to keep leopards and sulcatas in the same enclosure? I've found a 4 month old sulcata and am thinking about taking it, but just want to know if I'll need a seperate enclosure or not?

Thanks Tom

Aspen bedding is not one of the substrates that you can wet down. Some people use aspen bedding and a humid hide box and have good success with leopards. It is too dry where I am for this to work. You'll have to decide what is best for your situation.

Generally, people put the humid hide box on the warm side. I usually keep it where ever is convenient, but my lows only get down to 80.

It is not out of the question to mix these to species. Some people have done it and gotten away with it, but I STRONGLY recommend against it. Behaviorally, these two species are generally very different. They could give each other all sorts of pathogens which would gain a foot hold much easier since they are already stressed by each others presence. Plus, it is possible for them to hybridize, which is very bad in my opinion.

 

[davy89]

Doesn't sound like anything to worry about, probably just a difference in personality, also they generally slow down in the winter anyway.
Also, don't buy a sulcata, you're leopards will get big enough and you will have to separate them which will require more space, and seen as you're struggling for tortoise friendly outdoor temps living in Ireland I seriously think having another African species to keep warm will leave you in abject poverty.

Shell, very true. It wouldn't be practical at all the more I think about it. Even trying to find the space indoors would be a challenge.
So you don't think there's anything to worry about with the way she's acting? She just seems to sit around all day and sleep a lot of the time? I'd be more concerned if the vet hadn't said everything is OK with her, but I just can't help worrying since I got Missy a few weeks ago and she's so active. Compared to Roberta It's like she has ADHD or something!