wow... what dissapointment

[dmmj]

Well I think you would be able to tell a serious buyer from a look-e-loo IMHO, people often betray their true intent with subconscious movements and such. I am not trying to say you did anything wrong but I am pretty sure they could probably tell that you were not a serious buyer, I am sorry if you are offended but that is just the way I see it. Maybe they felt that the way you were asking to see it and from your tone and mannerisms that you were not serious, I don't know I was not there. Speaking of boothbabes I go to E3 every year and they have them everywhere, using super hot chicks to get geeks into your booth to talk about video games usually works.

 

[bikerchicspain]

I agree with the seller just because the animal is on sale doesnt mean that just anyone can go and pick the poor animal and stress her out, I am the same with my customers i will not get a rabbit out jusr because some small kids wants to hold it, or a snake because a bloke wants to look macho in front of hi mates or girlfriend. Yes its a business but to me the animal is first and foremost.If your a genuine buyer then yes hold it examine it etc.. I dont mean to offend anyone but those are my views..

 

[Candy]

O.K. he didn't say that he wanted to pick the animal up he said that he wanted to see it (which he said was to lift up the screen). He's said that now about 2 to 3 times. Sorry I just had to mention that.

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I was just wondering how this post got to page 3 after I just posted something 31 minutes ago. Do they get moved or deleted somehow?

 

[tortoisenerd]

At the reptile show I went to recently, one of the things I disliked most about the vendors (and all that I interacted with were like this) is that they had no authority over who was handling their torts. They did not encourage hand sanitizer use nor use between handling different species, although maybe 1/4 of them had it on the table. No care to limit the stress to the animals. Not a single hide, cramped conditions, etc. It seemed like all they cared about was selling the animals. They only time we got so much of a look was when my husband held a tortoise up at eye level to look under it to tell the sex as I was giving him a hands-on lesson (he didn't flip it over though). I commend the person selling the Aldabra for their attitude in wanting to protect it as shows enough are stressful on a tortoise even without the direct human contact, although I wonder how they can tell serious buyers from people who are just curious. Do you have to have cash in hand or something? Have called ahead?

Interesting topic. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Madkins007]

I agree- i am interested in hearing their rebuttal - i know they post on this site frequently which is why I posted this here in the first place.

I don't know your background, but I am a 51-year old guy who has worked in jobs that demanded customer service and satisfaction since working at a full-service gas station (the only kind we had back then) in 1972 when I was in Junior High.

My training and experience tells me that you will get quicker and better satisfaction if you contact them directly. The dispute is between you and one of their staff- you should give them a chance to resolve or explain it privately as well.

 

[bettinge]

I visit many different manufacturing facilities each year and deal with both owners as well as $8/hour "help". The one lesson I learned early in my career is that the lowest level worker and owner often look and act alike. Never judge or assume your dealing with an uneducated, know nothing rookie. I did that once and much to my surprise it was the very successful owner of the plant with several hundred employees.

Moral of the story "serious buyers don't look or act like anything"! A good salesperson treats everyone as if they are going to buy, Weather its a $40 sulcata or a $20k galapagos! By treating everyone as a potental customer, you build relationships that may pay off, even if the sale is not that day!

 

[Meg90]

Honestly, good for them.

The protection of animals at expos IS lax, I was stunned by how quickly they will unlock a drawer if you want to see something.

At the NARBC show, Tinley, tort "brokers" would let you hold the babies. They obviously, obviously did not produce them. Most had to echo MY question over their shoulder to someone else.

At that same show, was a EmysEmys breeder. He had hatchlings, yearlings, and torts several years old. And I am pretty sure he had a sign that said serious buyers only for handling. This man knew his stuff, and wanted only the best for his animals.

If you wanted to SEE the tortoise so badly, why did you not persist and make yourself clear? All you would have had to say was "I don't want to handle it, but can you move the screen aside?"

This thread started out with someone who seemed like they only wanted to badmouth a good breeder, and business man, because they were told the dreaded "no". I agree with whoever said that you should have addressed this privately if you wanted a response from BlueBeast. I am not going to backtrack through two pages to find out who said it.

I am hoping to have part of a table in a local show in the spring. And do you think I'm going to pop a baby out for who ever wants to hold it? No. If that "offends" people, tough nuts. The animals health, and safety comes first.

Especially when we are talking about a rare, large tortoise that is still hard to come by CB because of small clutches, low numbers of breeding animals and the amount of time it takes to reach maturity. Heck, I would have LOVED to hold an . But would I have bought it? No. So I would respect the seller, and the animal and keep my hands to myself.

 

[Crazy1]

rav007, I've read your comments and the comments of everyone else have you PM'd or emailed Tyler? Perhaps that is a way to get an answer from him or message him on his site.
I have known Tyler for some time now and done quite a bit of business with him. He, his wife and son seem like great people who do think of their animals. At the last show I attended I asked if they could move the screen so I could take a picture and see the Aldabra and was answered with "sure no problem" Perhaps his response was not the best but perhaps your request was not either. I do hope you try and clear the air with Tyler he is one of the good guys in my opinion.

 

[terryo]

We have a herp club here and sometimes we have very small learning expo's. We had Frog day a while back and there were lots of venders with every kind of frog, all kinds of things to buy. The turtles..some water or boxie and tortoise's that were there were NOT for sale, just to look at. There were signs all over saying Look, listen, but don't touch. I noticed some people were adamant about asking to hold something or they just picked things up to look at something as they walked by. There were a few venders that had to become a little rude when telling the people to stop touching. I could understand how nervous they were because there were so many people and it would have been very easy to pick up a little tub with a small frog and put it in your pocket. On of the girls from the club was a nervous wreck trying to watch everyone, as she was responsible for these animals.
I have never met Tyler Stewart in person, but know people who have bought from him and only say nice things about him. I'm sure the people working at the tables were all pretty stressed out worrying about their animals.

 

[mctlong]

Perhaps the vendor was a little nervous about all the people swarming around his animals as Terry pointed out. I definitely understand the need to protect the animals. I would not buy animals from a vendor who was allowing random people to handle their torts. It stresses the animals out and unnecessarily exposes them to germs. However, I think the situation with Rav007 is a little different. It sounds like Rav007 did not want to manhandle the aldabra. It sounds like he just wanted a better look and had his feelings hurt because he felt that the vendor misjudged him as a customer who was not serious about purchasing. I would probably be offended too if someone judged me without knowing anything about me.

Rav007,
In hindsight, perhaps you should have confronted him directly, immediately after the incident? I'm not saying that its okay for a vendor to be rude. Its not. However, he might not have meant to offend anyone. A candid conversation would give him a chance to clarify himself and clear up any misunderstanding. It still not too late to have a candid conversation if he's on this forum. I think you'd feel better if you PM him directly and hash things out. He should know that he offended a potential customer and he should have a chance to explain himself and make things right. You two share similar interests (i.e. torts), so your paths could cross again in the future.

 

[gummybearpoop]

I went to the Phoenix Reptile Show. It was cool to see so many tortoises. I have been going to reptiles shows in Arizona since the early 90s and this one had the most tortoises ever.

Those Aldabras were super nice. The lady at Blue Beast booth answered my questions without any hassle. I was surprised to see so many breeders/sellers let many people handle their tortoises. Personally, I never ask to hold or see an animal better unless I was pretty serious about buying. That's me though. I was tempted to ask more about the Radiated Tortoise, but the $3,500 price tag kept me in line.

 

[TylerStewart]

Interesting, as this is the first time I’ve heard of this “disappointment.” It seems that the majority here already understand our reasoning, but I’ll give my side of the story, without knowing which customer this was of the thousands that passed our booth this weekend.

First of all, we would not attempt to determine the financial situation of a potential customer based on appearance (that theory I threw out a long long time ago), and I'm a bigger person than that.

At a typical show, we are asked about every 3rd minute if someone can “see” or “hold” the tortoises. If we said yes to all these requests, we end up with tortoises in kids hands all over the place. We end up with people walking off with them to show their friends. We end up with customers getting peed on and dropping tortoises. We end up with 6 tortoises out around the booth and only 4 eyes to watch them all. We end up with kids from across the room running over to take their turn holding them. Worst of all, we would likely end up with sick tortoises that we don’t want to be selling. It has gotten to the point that we now just deny the requests unless someone is showing genuine interest in buying. Nobody complains about this (until now), and it makes my life much easier when trying to keep an eye on things at the expo. At the Pasadena show, someone was “holding” a tortoise, and a customer was waiting their turn to see into the enclosure. When selecting their tortoise, they considered every tortoise in there besides the one that was just being held. I can’t say I blame them either. If I was looking for a tortoise, I would want one coming straight from a breeder with as little handling in the meantime by anyone else.

We had 12 enclosures mostly full of tortoises with us; probably something like 150 tortoises available there. These were all glass enclosures with screen tops. While I don’t remember the exact customer this was, I fail to understand how opening the top screen makes the tortoises look any different than they would look through the glass front of the tanks. I also really doubt that we were anything even remotely rude. We were having a blast this weekend at a show with lots of friendly vendors, and there was rarely a time that I didn’t have a smile on my face. Maybe you were dealing with the grumpy 7 month old baby we had in the playpen there, but I don’t think my wife or I would “snap” at anyone like that. People commonly ask to “see” the tortoises, then when you open the screen they just reach right in and grab. If a request was to “see but not touch” the tortoise, we would have no problem moving the screen top.

I think most would agree that it’s silly to compare it to buying a car or a non-live item. It is also silly to compare it to other vendors that were allowing people to manhandle their animals, suggesting that I should also. That’s how I try to be better than other vendors; by having solid healthy animals that haven’t been freely handled.

I'm sorry if one of us startled you with too quick of an answer, but with the animal's best interests being a top priority, there's no easy way to make everyone happy.

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm sorry if one of us startled you with too quick of an answer,

I retired from the phone company and the first thing I learned during my initial training was the customer is always right and an apology goes a long way towards good customer care. They drummed this into us almost every day that I was an operator. I'm Sorry...I'm Sorry!!!

That's not something today's employees are taught or practice, and its refreshing to see you apologize, even though you knew you did nothing wrong.

Be the bigger person!

 

[Tim/Robin]

I'm sorry if one of us startled you with too quick of an answer,

its refreshing to see you apologize, even though you knew you did nothing wrong.

Amen!! I would not hesitate to do business with Tyler.

 

[Meg90]

I think its funny how Tyler gave the exact answer most of us had surmised!

Tort people are all pretty like minded I am noticing.

Bottom line is, don't touch unless you are familiar with buying. At the last show I was at, a mother asked to hold a small sulcata. The vendor let her. She then proceeded to hand the baby over to her small child, probably SIX tops. Now, I am betting that the vendor wasn't counting on a small child holding it, but he had already "given permission" so what could he do? Nothing. He was forced to wait until they handed it back.

Don't touch, don't bother the animals unless you want to take one of them home. That's my motto. I held a baby RF because I was seriously considering purchasing it. I also am nursing a want for a Chahoua gecko, but its a 350$ price tag on-up for babies. But did I ask to hold one? NO.

Good job to Tyler for holding on to his principles. You may have "lost" one customer, but I myself, would now be confident in buying from your company in the future now that I know that the animals rank above upset lookyloos.

 

[terryo]

I'm sorry if one of us startled you with too quick of an answer,

its refreshing to see you apologize, even though you knew you did nothing wrong.

Amen!! I would not hesitate to do business with Tyler.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[pros81]

There's this old Simpson's episode where Bart and Milhouse are in the comic book store and they ask to "see" this issue of "Radioactive Man," but the Comic Book Guy refuses because he doesn't want their "dirty" fingerprints all over the "limited edition" issue.

It may be discriminating against a potential buyer, but when it comes to valuable inventory, I say it's acceptable business practice.

On a completely unrelated note, I got a Cherryhead from Tyler and the little guy is doing great!

 

[Candy]

Rav007, since it was so hard to see Tylers Aldabras through the screen at the Arizona Expo maybe you can go to this thread and view them better. They're under picture 10 and they look beautiful to me. I actually could see them quite nicely in the picture. Phoenix Reptile Show. Gummybearpoop has posted some pictures from the Expo. Hope this helps.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Hey, Candy, where's the link? I want to see the Aldabrans!

 

[Meg90]

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-10516.html