COLD DARK ROOM

[Tidgy's Dad]

Adam said


Is there a generally problem by law to take torts in other countries ?

Yes.
Most species of tortoise are listed as protected by CITES (the Convention In Trade of Endangered Species of flora and fauna.)
You need paperwork to move them from country to country and if they are wild caught or don't have a certificate saying they were captive bred then they cannot be removed from their country of origin even if they have nowhere else to go and can't be released safely back into the wild.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

I have to go and join the great salad hunt now as Lola is down to his last bag!
Nothing suitable in Morrison's last night
Hopefully I can find a few things to make a decent meal for him tomorrow.
I'll see you all later.
Have a good Lazy Sunday afternoon!

Good luck with finding food for Lola.
Still no seedlings sprouting for The Tidge Meister.
Speak later, Lyn.

 

[Moozillion]

Hope your back is feeling better today Bea.

Thank you! Much better thanks to 1) a good night's sleep and 2) my TENS unit!!!! Oh, I DO Love my TENS unit!!!!!!!!

 

[Moozillion]

Good morning, roommates!
Linda, hope your in-laws behave better than my MIL this morning. :/ It was awful. But nothing that wouldn't go away with a few glasses and a few months of patience - and then I'll be in Denmark.
Anyway, Kristoff provided me with an outdoor therapy session. He's amazing. And he ate a bit.
View attachment 199035

What a handsome fellow he is!!!!!!

 

[Moozillion]

Good morning, roommates!
Linda, hope your in-laws behave better than my MIL this morning. :/ It was awful. But nothing that wouldn't go away with a few glasses and a few months of patience - and then I'll be in Denmark.
Anyway, Kristoff provided me with an outdoor therapy session. He's amazing. And he ate a bit.
View attachment 199035

Is Kristoff a Hermann's tortoise? He looks a lot like my Elsa!

 

[Lyn W]

Good luck with finding food for Lola.
Still no seedlings sprouting for The Tidge Meister.
Speak later, Lyn.

Success!!! And back in time to watch the rugby.(7-3 to Italy at the mo)
Tesco had some bags with a decent selection of leaves and the Florette classic crispy was reduced to £1 a bag so I've a few days worth now. The romaine was also reduced to 36p, don't give that very often but it's in very cold water to make it last a bit longer to add some of bulk if needed.

 

[Kristoff]

Is Kristoff a Hermann's tortoise? He looks a lot like my Elsa!

He's a testudo as well - Testudo graeca ibera. I'll pass on to him your compliments in the morning.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Is Kristoff a Hermann's tortoise? He looks a lot like my Elsa!

He looks so different to my Tidgy, and, I agree, much closer to your Elsa, but he (and Lena's Elsa) are Greeks.
Tidgy is Testudo graeca graeca but Lena's are a different subspecies, Testudo graeca ibera.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Success!!! And back in time to watch the rugby.(7-3 to Italy at the mo)
Tesco had some bags with a decent selection of leaves and the Florette classic crispy was reduced to £1 a bag so I've a few days worth now. The romaine was also reduced to 36p, don't give that very often but it's in very cold water to make it last a bit longer to add some of bulk if needed.

Hurrah for Tesco!
Tuck in Lola!
Italy played well in the first half but Wales are looking better now, I think they'll turn it around.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Hurrah for Tesco!
Tuck in Lola!
Italy played well in the first half but Wales are looking better now, I think they'll turn it around.

Yup, they have.
17 - 7 to Wales.
Nice play from Wales, now.

 

[Kristoff]

Adam said


Is there a generally problem by law to take torts in other countries ?

Yes.
Most species of tortoise are listed as protected by CITES (the Convention In Trade of Endangered Species of flora and fauna.)
You need paperwork to move them from country to country and if they are wild caught or don't have a certificate saying they were captive bred then they cannot be removed from their country of origin even if they have nowhere else to go and can't be released safely back into the wild.

That about sums up the problem I'm having. It is no longer legal to sell tortoises and turtles - and pretty much anything considered wildlife - in Turkey, and there's no breeder market either. To get a CITES permit I need to present a legitimate receipt proving my torts aren't wild-caught, but of course they're 99.99% wild-caught. (Since I neither purchased nor caught them, I'll never know 100%.) The important thing is I have no documentation/receipts to make the permit possible.

 

[JoesMum]

He's a testudo as well - Testudo graeca ibera. I'll pass on to him your compliments in the morning.

An Iberan Greek instead of the Greek Greek (graeca graeca) like Joe and Tidgy

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

An Iberan Greek instead of the Greek Greek (graeca graeca) like Joe and Tidgy

Bless 'em all.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

That about sums up the problem I'm having. It is no longer legal to sell tortoises and turtles - and pretty much anything considered wildlife - in Turkey, and there's no breeder market either. To get a CITES permit I need to present a legitimate receipt proving my torts aren't wild-caught, but of course they're 99.99% wild-caught. (Since I neither purchased nor caught them, I'll never know 100%.) The important thing is I have no documentation/receipts to make the permit possible.

Yes, it's one of the many instances where laws have been created for the best of reasons but are then followed to the letter, even when the end results are contrary to the purpose of the law in the first place. Each case ought to be decided individually on it's own merits.

 

[Kristoff]

Since we're on the subject, I wanted to ask you, roommates, what you would think about the idea of letting them out in the wild.
1. I don't trust human beings very much here when it comes to torts. They tend to see torts as cheap/free accessory for the front lawn.
2. The person I do have in mind for a potentially good tort mom might be leaving Turkey or Izmir within a couple of years. She won't be able to take them in all likelihood.
3. They are in their native climate and probably exactly around their original geographic region. As such, acclimatization won't be a problem.
4. The biggest downside in my opinion is that Elsa has been with humans long enough not to be shy of any human or pet or a new situation.
I'd appreciate your advice a lot. If I do release them, I want to do it in mid-spring so they have time to get used to their new surroundings.
:/

 

[Lyn W]

Since we're on the subject, I wanted to ask you, roommates, what you would think about the idea of letting them out in the wild.
1. I don't trust human beings very much here when it comes to torts. They tend to see torts as cheap/free accessory for the front lawn.
2. The person I do have in mind for a potentially good tort mom might be leaving Turkey or Izmir within a couple of years. She won't be able to take them in all likelihood.
3. They are in their native climate and probably exactly around their original geographic region. As such, acclimatization won't be a problem.
4. The biggest downside in my opinion is that Elsa has been with humans long enough not to be shy of any human or pet or a new situation.
I'd appreciate your advice a lot. If I do release them, I want to do it in mid-spring so they have time to get used to their new surroundings.
:/

I don't know about that Lena, I have seen lots of posts on the forum saying that once they have been kept as pets they can't be released in to the wild again. But don't take my word for that, try doing a search.
Are there any zoos or sanctuaries in Turkey that may take them? I know that Jordan has a tortoise rescue place so it may be worth looking into.
What a horrible dilemma for you.

 

[Lyn W]

I am a happy Welsh bunny as Wales just beat Italy 33 -7.

 

[JoesMum]

I am a happy Welsh bunny as Wales just beat Italy 33 -7.

Another happy bunny here too.

Doubly happy because we're on the way home and the in-laws weren't exactly well behaved, but it wasn't directed at me.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Since we're on the subject, I wanted to ask you, roommates, what you would think about the idea of letting them out in the wild.
1. I don't trust human beings very much here when it comes to torts. They tend to see torts as cheap/free accessory for the front lawn.
2. The person I do have in mind for a potentially good tort mom might be leaving Turkey or Izmir within a couple of years. She won't be able to take them in all likelihood.
3. They are in their native climate and probably exactly around their original geographic region. As such, acclimatization won't be a problem.
4. The biggest downside in my opinion is that Elsa has been with humans long enough not to be shy of any human or pet or a new situation.
I'd appreciate your advice a lot. If I do release them, I want to do it in mid-spring so they have time to get used to their new surroundings.
:/

It's such an impossible position to be in, i really hurt for you.
I simply wouldn't leave the country, but I know that option is not open to you, especially with the way Turkey is heading at the moment.
From my reading, I think releasing tortoises back into the wild after even a short amount of time in captivity is a bad idea. From personal experience it is very hard to do so with animals in general. Most of them don't make it. But most of them don't in the wild, either, not for long.
On the other hand, giving the tortoises to people I don't know or trust would not be an option for me, and it's hard to give them to someone who may be leaving in a couple of years themselves, it also puts future responsibility for this problem onto someone else, is maybe postponing the inevitable.
I will PM you what I would do, as it's not good to post it here, i feel.

 

[Lyn W]

Another happy bunny here too.

Doubly happy because we're on the way home and the in-laws weren't exactly well behaved, but it wasn't directed at me.

Not being on the receiving end of in-laws behaving badly is always a bonus!