Age guess/pyramiding?
- Thread starter Fire_bug80
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Looks as though it could be 6 to 8 months or so of age. Since it was not started overly well before you purchased it, it could even be a bit older than that.
Fire_bug80
Active Member
It started overly well? Please explain
Do you have a picture of the snout from the day you got it, or soon after? Sulcatas lose their egg tooth around 6 weeks. This is really the only reliable age indicator at this stage. Many people were sold a baby and told it was "6 month old", yet it still had that egg tooth. Others were sold a baby and told it was "a month old" or less, yet no egg tooth.
Hopefully Zovick will chime in with his wisdom to answer your question, but I'll address it too. Most breeders mistakenly think this is a "desert" species that needs dry conditions, and they start them that way after hatching. This is the opposite of what they need and what they hatch into in the wild, and so almost all captive hatched sulcatas world wide are started all wrong. We see this all over the USA, the UK, Europe, and Asia. The result is that many of them die weeks or months later due to the kidney damage suffered from chronic dehydration right after hatching. It takes weeks or months to kill them, and the breeders and sellers blame the new owner because the death comes so long after the sale. They have no idea that THEY are the one who killed the baby by starting it all wrong in the days and weeks right after hatching.
Here is more explanation of what happens. Look for the tell tale sign of them growing to 50 grams and then stalling there. They eat, walk around, drink, bask and all seems normal, but they never grow past 50 grams for weeks or months.
"Hatchling Failure Syndrome"
I've heard this term for many years and I don't like it. Its a way to excuse our ignorance and failure. I will agree that an occasional hatchling is born that is just not going to make it no matter what anybody does, but MOST of them, if they make it full term and hatch, SHOULD survive and...
tortoiseforum.org
If you haven't realized by now, almost all of the care info given for this species by breeders, pet shops and all on-line sources like FB and YT, is all wrong. Here is the correct care info:
The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise
I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...
tortoiseforum.org
Some of the dry started babies will pull through and survive. Many won't. All you can do is offer the best conditions and hydration that you can and hope for the best. Questions are welcome.
Fire_bug80
Active Member
Do you have a picture of the snout from the day you got it, or soon after? Sulcatas lose their egg tooth around 6 weeks. This is really the only reliable age indicator at this stage. Many people were sold a baby and told it was "6 month old", yet it still had that egg tooth. Others were sold a baby and told it was "a month old" or less, yet no egg tooth.
Hopefully Zovick will chime in with his wisdom to answer your question, but I'll address it too. Most breeders mistakenly think this is a "desert" species that needs dry conditions, and they start them that way after hatching. This is the opposite of what they need and what they hatch into in the wild, and so almost all captive hatched sulcatas world wide are started all wrong. We see this all over the USA, the UK, Europe, and Asia. The result is that many of them die weeks or months later due to the kidney damage suffered from chronic dehydration right after hatching. It takes weeks or months to kill them, and the breeders and sellers blame the new owner because the death comes so long after the sale. They have no idea that THEY are the one who killed the baby by starting it all wrong in the days and weeks right after hatching.
Here is more explanation of what happens. Look for the tell tale sign of them growing to 50 grams and then stalling there. They eat, walk around, drink, bask and all seems normal, but they never grow past 50 grams for weeks or months.
"Hatchling Failure Syndrome"
I've heard this term for many years and I don't like it. Its a way to excuse our ignorance and failure. I will agree that an occasional hatchling is born that is just not going to make it no matter what anybody does, but MOST of them, if they make it full term and hatch, SHOULD survive and...
If you haven't realized by now, almost all of the care info given for this species by breeders, pet shops and all on-line sources like FB and YT, is all wrong. Here is the correct care info:
The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise
I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...
Some of the dry started babies will pull through and survive. Many won't. All you can do is offer the best conditions and hydration that you can and hope for the best. Questions are welcome.
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Fire_bug80
Active Member
I just found this forum a few weeks ago. I’m learning but everyone in here seems very knowledgeable. Thank you for the help.
In the second picture sleeping in the water bowl, you can clearly see a prominent egg tooth. This tortoise was less than a month old when you got it.
Just about every site "seems" very knowledgable. People give their advice with confidence and authority. The problem is that for decades we have had the wrong idea about this and several other species. I was taught, and all the books still say, that this is a desert species and they will get shell rot and a respiratory infection if kept damp and with humidity. You will read that too much soaking "upsets their water balance" or "makes them pass their food too quickly and not get all the nutrients out of it". All of this is completely and totally false. For years I practiced this wrong info and taught it to others, meanwhile I couldn't grow a normal looking tortoise no mater what I did. Experimentation, research, and much effort finally began to reveal what was going on and why. Sulcatas in the wild hatch at the start of the monsoon season over there. Its hot, wet, rainy, humid, and puddles and marshes form everywhere. THIS is the environment babies need. Older ones and adults then survive the dry season by going underground and living in warm humid burrows for 95% of their lives. Dryness kills babies. Humidity and hydration helps babies thrive.
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Tom has addressed the subject quite well. Basically, the tortoise was showing some pyramiding tendency from the outset because it was started out too dry.
Your good care can now hopefully turn this tendency around and make it minimally visible over the next year or so.
Fire_bug80
Active Member
Pyramiding? Where
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It is beginning right at the edges of the new growth between the original scutes.
This thread may help you to visualize it:
Pyamiding explained
Could somebody explain where I can see if pyramiding is still happening. My little Sully was started dry and obviously shows signs of pyramiding. Thanks to @Tom It's in an enclosed enclosure with humidity 77-82%. I know the dark brown is where the shell is growing. Am I just looking for that...
tortoiseforum.org
Fire_bug80
Active Member
I know the scutes are the plates. So in between are not supposed to look like this? I took this pic Oct 20thIt is beginning right at the edges of the new growth between the original scutes.
This thread may help you to visualize it:
Pyamiding explained
Could somebody explain where I can see if pyramiding is still happening. My little Sully was started dry and obviously shows signs of pyramiding. Thanks to @Tom It's in an enclosed enclosure with humidity 77-82%. I know the dark brown is where the shell is growing. Am I just looking for that...
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Did you look at the photos in post #5 of the thread I linked? Your tortoise looks like a slightly lesser version of the photo depicting pyramiding. It is not that bad yet on your tortoise, but the edges of the original scutes of your tortoise are slightly raised up compared to the new growth. This is the beginning of pyramiding.
As I said earlier, it isn't that bad yet and should improve with the care you will be giving the tortoise now after coming to this forum.
Fire_bug80
Active Member
Yes I did. I’ve done a lot of reading in here today. Stuck at the fire station. Lol. I seen some pics of perfect shells. Thanks for the info
Fire_bug80
Active Member
Fire_bug80
Active Member
*growth
The new growth happens around the margins of each scute. Its the darker area.
Fire_bug80
Active Member
Will my tort get darker? And why is it some torts look so dark while small, then the really big ones are all light? Like crush
New growth on babies and juveniles comes in dark. Over time they weather and fade to the normal tan color.
Fire_bug80
Active Member
4months old Just weighed 73g. 6.5’’. Is he/she on track??
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Your baby is undersize for its age due to the incorrect start it had before you got it, but you are past the "danger zone" point of 50 grams. As long as nothing terrible happens, your baby should live and grow up to be a giant.
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