Indoor leopard tortoise questions

[Yo Yo Oreo]

Hi everyone! I have a trio of leopard tortoises that are roughly a year and a half old (they turn 2 in August). I have had them in a giant tote while they were growing but now they really need something bigger. I'm making plans to build a 4x8 enclosure and have lots of questions I am hoping you can help me with. I plan on making it enclosed to keep the humidity and heat up while they are still growing. I am looking at using plywood lined with pond liner. No stores around me stock PVC panels so that is unfortunately not an option.

1. Can a radiant heat panel be mounted to a plywood lid? If not, what do I do for a heat source at night or for the ambient temps? If it does work, how many would I need for a 4x8 enclosed table? When I look at reptile basics they only have an 80w in stock but I wonder if two of those would be enough. I also sent a message over to pro-products to see what they recommend as well.

2. Do I need a vent of some kind or would opening the cage each day be enough? My current tote is not 100% closed as I put a hole in the lid with wire for the CHE so I haven't been too worried but it has made the humidity difficult. I like the idea of having a totally enclosed space, would make keeping a high humidity and heat much easier.

3. I have ordered an arcadia T5 HO uvb bulb to use with the new enclosure. Does that put out a noticeable amount of heat? I am wondering if that will add to my heat in the tank if it is fully enclosed.

4. Does anyone have pictures of a plywood enclosed tank for tortoises? Doesn't even have to be for leopards specifically just trying to get some ideas of what this will look like.

I know I have more questions but can't think of it right now. I will just add to this later when I think of them. Thanks in advance for your help in making sure my tortoises get what they need!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
Did you ask companies making advertising signs or glass cutting if they carry PVC panels? I suppose, it's going to be a temporary enclosure so you can also think about using hydroponic grow tents.

This link may be useful for planning heating/lightning layout:

8*4 enclosure lighting

We're in the process of buying lights for my new Aldabra enclosure. Arcadia LumenIZE is a good (though expensive) product line; I wish it had been available for my Boxie's stock tank (JUN 2023). Little Aldabra's enclosure will be slightly larger (96" x 48" x 48") and require more lighting...

tortoiseforum.org

1. Yes, radiant panels can be fixed to the lid. You can use chicken coop heat panels from Tractor Supply instead of reptile marketed RHPs. For even heat distribution you will need at least two RHPs (if room gets really cold I would opt for 120+W panels).

2. You can make vent holes on the sides, but keep them closed, unless you need to lower humidity or reduce temperatures.

3. Yes, T5 fixtures with built-in ballast add some heat and can rise ambient temperature. LED bars contribute as well.

4. You can get some ideas for the enclosure in this thread: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/enclosure-inspiration.220597/

 

[Tom]

Hi everyone! I have a trio of leopard tortoises that are roughly a year and a half old (they turn 2 in August). I have had them in a giant tote while they were growing but now they really need something bigger. I'm making plans to build a 4x8 enclosure and have lots of questions I am hoping you can help me with. I plan on making it enclosed to keep the humidity and heat up while they are still growing. I am looking at using plywood lined with pond liner. No stores around me stock PVC panels so that is unfortunately not an option.

1. Can a radiant heat panel be mounted to a plywood lid? If not, what do I do for a heat source at night or for the ambient temps? If it does work, how many would I need for a 4x8 enclosed table? When I look at reptile basics they only have an 80w in stock but I wonder if two of those would be enough. I also sent a message over to pro-products to see what they recommend as well.

2. Do I need a vent of some kind or would opening the cage each day be enough? My current tote is not 100% closed as I put a hole in the lid with wire for the CHE so I haven't been too worried but it has made the humidity difficult. I like the idea of having a totally enclosed space, would make keeping a high humidity and heat much easier.

3. I have ordered an arcadia T5 HO uvb bulb to use with the new enclosure. Does that put out a noticeable amount of heat? I am wondering if that will add to my heat in the tank if it is fully enclosed.

4. Does anyone have pictures of a plywood enclosed tank for tortoises? Doesn't even have to be for leopards specifically just trying to get some ideas of what this will look like.

I know I have more questions but can't think of it right now. I will just add to this later when I think of them. Thanks in advance for your help in making sure my tortoises get what they need!

Good answers from Alex. I'll chime in too:
1. Yes. I use two 80 watts in mine. It works. If room temp is much below 60, you'll have to watch and see if more heat is needed to maintain the overnight temperature.

2. Best to have adjustable vents so that you can close them or partially close them as needed depending on temps and humidity.

3. Great bulb. Yes it makes heat, and that is one way to get the ambient temp up during the day time. For leopards, 80 is a good minimum, but I like ambient to climb to around 90 during the day.

4. I used to make my own out of wood. Nothing works to preserve them. Be prepared for it to rot in about 12-18 months. Wood is just not a viable option. You didn't say why you wanted to build your own, but most people do it to save money. I found it cheaper to just buy them. Makers get the materials in wholesale lots much cheaper than the full retail price we have to pay. I still have to build my outdoor night boxes because no one makes anything large or well insulated enough, but I now buy all my indoor enclosures. I recommend Mark's Smart Enclosures. His come with everything installed and ready to go. It's cheaper, and much better, than buying everything separately and installing it all your self.

 

[Yo Yo Oreo]

Thanks for replying! Those links are very helpful.

I talked with Bob over at pro products and have settled on getting one of their pro heat radiant panels. I love the idea of having adjustable vents.

There are a few reasons for wanting to build my own enclosure. Cost is certainly part of it. The long lead times are a factor as well. I tried to reach out to animal plastics to see what their lead times were and never heard back from them but I know they have had long times in the past. Another reason is the awkward space I have available. Technically it doesn't fit a full 48", my enclosure has to be 44" wide. Also I just enjoy building. I have made several chicken coops and used to make various sized aquarium stands.

A 44"x96" enclosure will not work forever anyways. If it gets me through a year or two I'll be happy. It just depends on how quickly they grow. I would love to get your opinion on my plan for substrate before I buy materials though. I currently have a bioactive tank and would like to continue that.

I was thinking of doing a base layer of gravel followed by an inch of potting/garden soil to provide nutrients for plants. Then do several inches, maybe 4?, of eco earth coco coir, then maybe a half inch of orchid fir bark to help reduce the mess. That should still allow plants to grow well and I figured I could pull the bark back to plant seeds and then cover again with the bark to help keep the tortoises from trampling the seeds. The main thing I plant with is an African seed mix I got from tortoisesupply and wheat grass as it sprouts very quickly. I also plant the grass in containers outside of the tortoise tank and transplant into the tank when it gets a few inches tall. That usually lasts about a week (or less) so I constantly have grass sprouting in various containers.

 

[chigs184]

I am also in the starting process of upgrading to an 8ftx4ft. I have found a company that will custom build it and it costs far less than if I built it myself, that's just materials. I don't know if you have a place nearby that deals with custom builds, but I'd check that out, the price might surprise you.

Sorry to jump in on your post, but I also have a quick question... I currently heat his 4ftx2ft at night with a CHE. How would you recommend I heat an 8x4? Or just use 2 CHE's?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thanks for replying! Those links are very helpful.

I talked with Bob over at pro products and have settled on getting one of their pro heat radiant panels. I love the idea of having adjustable vents.

There are a few reasons for wanting to build my own enclosure. Cost is certainly part of it. The long lead times are a factor as well. I tried to reach out to animal plastics to see what their lead times were and never heard back from them but I know they have had long times in the past. Another reason is the awkward space I have available. Technically it doesn't fit a full 48", my enclosure has to be 44" wide. Also I just enjoy building. I have made several chicken coops and used to make various sized aquarium stands.

A 44"x96" enclosure will not work forever anyways. If it gets me through a year or two I'll be happy. It just depends on how quickly they grow. I would love to get your opinion on my plan for substrate before I buy materials though. I currently have a bioactive tank and would like to continue that.

I was thinking of doing a base layer of gravel followed by an inch of potting/garden soil to provide nutrients for plants. Then do several inches, maybe 4?, of eco earth coco coir, then maybe a half inch of orchid fir bark to help reduce the mess. That should still allow plants to grow well and I figured I could pull the bark back to plant seeds and then cover again with the bark to help keep the tortoises from trampling the seeds. The main thing I plant with is an African seed mix I got from tortoisesupply and wheat grass as it sprouts very quickly. I also plant the grass in containers outside of the tortoise tank and transplant into the tank when it gets a few inches tall. That usually lasts about a week (or less) so I constantly have grass sprouting in various containers.

I'm not an expert in bioactive enclosures so don't take my words for granted.
1. Instead of gravel I would use lava rock or pumice for the drainage layer (it's told that these can be a source of minerals for the plants). Or just expanded clay balls because of less weight.
2. For the substrate itself, maybe a mix of crushed oven-dried leaf litter, aspen shavings, coco coir and orchid bark will work better. If you can make it thick enough (6-8 inches), then you can use nightcrawlers as a part of cleanup crew - they do a great job at aerating soil and supplying nutrients for the plants.
3. Laying orchid bark or leaf litter on top of the substrate will reduce mess, however makes it harder for plants to establish themselves.
4. With tortoise growing and gaining weight it gets progressively harder to plant anything new in the enclosure. At 2-3 lbs tortoise easily demolish sprouts and young plants - this makes me think that replaceable plant trays and pots are a better option. Honestly, I'm getting tired of replacing plants all the time in my tortoise enclosure

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I am also in the starting process of upgrading to an 8ftx4ft. I have found a company that will custom build it and it costs far less than if I built it myself, that's just materials. I don't know if you have a place nearby that deals with custom builds, but I'd check that out, the price might surprise you.

Sorry to jump in on your post, but I also have a quick question... I currently heat his 4ftx2ft at night with a CHE. How would you recommend I heat an 8x4? Or just use 2 CHE's?

I would use more than 2 CHEs for the 8x4 enclosure or two radiant heat panels. While raw wattage of two CHEs can be sufficient to maintain temperature, high wattage CHEs will create "hot spots" and this can provoke more pyramiding.

 

[RandyTortoise]

Good answers from Alex. I'll chime in too:
1. Yes. I use two 80 watts in mine. It works. If room temp is much below 60, you'll have to watch and see if more heat is needed to maintain the overnight temperature.

2. Best to have adjustable vents so that you can close them or partially close them as needed depending on temps and humidity.

3. Great bulb. Yes it makes heat, and that is one way to get the ambient temp up during the day time. For leopards, 80 is a good minimum, but I like ambient to climb to around 90 during the day.

4. I used to make my own out of wood. Nothing works to preserve them. Be prepared for it to rot in about 12-18 months. Wood is just not a viable option. You didn't say why you wanted to build your own, but most people do it to save money. I found it cheaper to just buy them. Makers get the materials in wholesale lots much cheaper than the full retail price we have to pay. I still have to build my outdoor night boxes because no one makes anything large or well insulated enough, but I now buy all my indoor enclosures. I recommend Mark's Smart Enclosures. His come with everything installed and ready to go. It's cheaper, and much better, than buying everything separately and installing it all your self.

I have leopards indoors. A great option is to go to a farm supply store, like Blains, and go outside in the back where they have animal feed troughs and water troughs. I bought a huge rubber livestock watering trough that was 8 feet long and 3 feet wide. I put that in my basement and built a simple 2x4 frame with a long crossbar of wood and hang lights from the cross bar. The trough was about $150 and the wood was about $30. It took all of 2 hours to set it up!

 

[Tom]

Thanks for replying! Those links are very helpful.

I talked with Bob over at pro products and have settled on getting one of their pro heat radiant panels. I love the idea of having adjustable vents.

There are a few reasons for wanting to build my own enclosure. Cost is certainly part of it. The long lead times are a factor as well. I tried to reach out to animal plastics to see what their lead times were and never heard back from them but I know they have had long times in the past. Another reason is the awkward space I have available. Technically it doesn't fit a full 48", my enclosure has to be 44" wide. Also I just enjoy building. I have made several chicken coops and used to make various sized aquarium stands.

A 44"x96" enclosure will not work forever anyways. If it gets me through a year or two I'll be happy. It just depends on how quickly they grow. I would love to get your opinion on my plan for substrate before I buy materials though. I currently have a bioactive tank and would like to continue that.

I was thinking of doing a base layer of gravel followed by an inch of potting/garden soil to provide nutrients for plants. Then do several inches, maybe 4?, of eco earth coco coir, then maybe a half inch of orchid fir bark to help reduce the mess. That should still allow plants to grow well and I figured I could pull the bark back to plant seeds and then cover again with the bark to help keep the tortoises from trampling the seeds. The main thing I plant with is an African seed mix I got from tortoisesupply and wheat grass as it sprouts very quickly. I also plant the grass in containers outside of the tortoise tank and transplant into the tank when it gets a few inches tall. That usually lasts about a week (or less) so I constantly have grass sprouting in various containers.

I would not use gravel in a tortoise enclosure. They tend to eat it and get impacted, and whatever is on the bottom will eventually work its way tot he top, with plenty of help from the tortoise.

Likewise with soil. There is no store bought soil that is safe to use as tortoise substrate.

A half inch of orchid bark will quickly be swept away and you'll then be subject to the full mess of coco coir.

Personally, I would use all orchid bark or cypress mulch, and keep the plants in pots. Growing seeds in an indoor tortoise enclosure never works. They trample or eat it before it has a chance to do anything. I like hanging pots as they don't use up floor space, and the tortoises can eat whatever hangs down, or you can cut it and feed it to them.

 

[Yo Yo Oreo]

I would not use gravel in a tortoise enclosure. They tend to eat it and get impacted, and whatever is on the bottom will eventually work its way tot he top, with plenty of help from the tortoise.

Likewise with soil. There is no store bought soil that is safe to use as tortoise substrate.

A half inch of orchid bark will quickly be swept away and you'll then be subject to the full mess of coco coir.

Personally, I would use all orchid bark or cypress mulch, and keep the plants in pots. Growing seeds in an indoor tortoise enclosure never works. They trample or eat it before it has a chance to do anything. I like hanging pots as they don't use up floor space, and the tortoises can eat whatever hangs down, or you can cut it and feed it to them.

Thanks so much! The idea of just bark with plants in pots is certainly appealing, it would be less mess and easier to change the substrate. It might be a higher cost though compared to the coco coir. I'll have to look into that some more! Thanks again for your opinion.

 

[TheTortoiseKing]

I am also in the starting process of upgrading to an 8ftx4ft. I have found a company that will custom build it and it costs far less than if I built it myself, that's just materials. I don't know if you have a place nearby that deals with custom builds, but I'd check that out, the price might surprise you.

Sorry to jump in on your post, but I also have a quick question... I currently heat his 4ftx2ft at night with a CHE. How would you recommend I heat an 8x4? Or just use 2 CHE's?

What company did you use? I wonder if I have something similar in my area.

 

[Tom]

Thanks so much! The idea of just bark with plants in pots is certainly appealing, it would be less mess and easier to change the substrate. It might be a higher cost though compared to the coco coir. I'll have to look into that some more! Thanks again for your opinion.

You can use all coco coir. That is just not my first choice because it can be messy. If you decide to go that way, firm hand packing helps reduce the mess when using coco coir. This is my preferred substrate choice for baby DTs and all Testudo babies.

 

[Yo Yo Oreo]

You can use all coco coir. That is just not my first choice because it can be messy. If you decide to go that way, firm hand packing helps reduce the mess when using coco coir. This is my preferred substrate choice for baby DTs and all Testudo babies.

Thank you! I am glad I remembered this forum. I will admit that reading many threads here and asking questions has shown me that I am doing a few things wrong but I want to change that and do better now.

I had a couples of questions regarding a basking bulb too. I bought this pack of bulbs to use with the new enclosure but I worry I may have bought the wrong type? It says it puts out only UVA which I have read is very different from UVB (and I bought the T5HO for my UVB light). Can I use these or do I need to buy something else? I would rather find out now than wait and hurt my tortoises.
Basking bulb

Do I need to put my basking bulb, whatever I do use, on a thermostat? I am looking at getting a herpstat thermostat to use with my radiant heat panel and I wonder if I should get the herpstat 2 so I could monitor or control the basking area as well. I guess the other option is I do not use the thermostat and adjust the wattage of the basking bulb? I do have a temp gun that I use to check temperature with.

I also wondered if it was worth the little extra money to get the herpstat with wifi? If anyone uses one I would love to know if the feature is worth the little bit of extra money or not so much.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I had a couples of questions regarding a basking bulb too. I bought this pack of bulbs to use with the new enclosure but I worry I may have bought the wrong type? It says it puts out only UVA which I have read is very different from UVB (and I bought the T5HO for my UVB light). Can I use these or do I need to buy something else? I would rather find out now than wait and hurt my tortoises.
Basking bulb

That heat lamp isn't suitable, you want an incandescent flood light that isn't colored. Arcadia and Flukers sell them for example.

 

[Yo Yo Oreo]

That heat lamp isn't suitable, you want an incandescent flood light that isn't colored. Arcadia and Flukers sell them for example.

So something like this instead? I see they have a basking spot and a basking flood.
Basking flood

It's the only basking flood light I can find. Everything else is called a spot light.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

That link opens a CHE to me. Can you find these kinds of lights?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

So something like this instead? I see they have a basking spot and a basking flood.
Basking flood

Yes, Arcadia Golden Sun Floodlights are fine to use. As a sidenote: incandescent basking lamp have neglible UVA output and most UVB lamps also output UVA.

You don't need a thermostat for the basking lamp (just different wattages for the summer and winter months if room temperature varies a lot) and an optional lamp dimmer (rheostat).

Can't say anything about WiFi feature in Herpstat, but I use "smart" sockets and temperature sensors - it's really convenient to check from a smartphone what's happening in the enclosure, set lightning schedule etc.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

So something like this instead? I see they have a basking spot and a basking flood.
Basking flood

It's the only basking flood light I can find. Everything else is called a spot light.

I see that my Amazon opens up the wrong product, trying to show one that they can ship to Finland.

 

[Yo Yo Oreo]

Yes, Arcadia Golden Sun Floodlights are fine to use. As a sidenote: incandescent basking lamp have neglible UVA output and most UVB lamps also output UVA.

You don't need a thermostat for the basking lamp (just different wattages for the summer and winter months if room temperature varies a lot) and an optional lamp dimmer (rheostat).

Can't say anything about WiFi feature in Herpstat, but I use "smart" sockets and temperature sensors - it's really convenient to check from a smartphone what's happening in the enclosure, set lightning schedule etc.

Thank you! It looks like my local Petsmart might carry the 75w goldensun flood lamp so I think I'll try that. I love your idea with the smart sockets too! Seems a lot better than the bulky timers I have used in the past.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Thank you! It looks like my local Petsmart might carry the 75w goldensun flood lamp so I think I'll try that. I love your idea with the smart sockets too! Seems a lot better than the bulky timers I have used in the past.

Be sure to get a regular flood lamp, not halogen.

I have TP-Link Tapo sockets/power strips and sensors. No major issues so far, timers/schedules work even when Internet connection goes down for a while.