My redfoot is pyramiding?

[dada625]

Hi friends!
Is my redfoot pyramiding? Why these scute lines are 'ups and downs', so rough.
He is 8 months, 170g, 9.5cm length. He is in a 200L fish tank with closed cover. Temperature is between 26-29, humidity is 85-90.

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

Hi friends!
Is my redfoot pyramiding? Why these scute lines are 'ups and downs', so rough.
He is 8 months, 170g, 9.5cm length. He is in a 200L fish tank with closed cover. Temperature is between 26-29, humidity is 85-90.
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Maybe @Littleredfootbigredheart or someone they know on this forum could help?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I can definitely tag these guys to have a look, they’re the red experts @ZEROPILOT @Anyfoot

In my(less experienced) opinion, it might be tricky to say with absolute certainty at this stage, one thing I will say is I’ve noticed red foot’s growth ridges tend to be a little more pronounced, which when smaller I think can sometimes give the illusion of the beginning stages of pyramiding. Now obviously I can’t say for sure this isn’t the start of some, but if you’re maintaining your humidity around 85-90, I’d be surprised

 

[dada625]

I can definitely tag these guys to have a look, they’re the red experts @ZEROPILOT @Anyfoot

In my(less experienced) opinion, it might be tricky to say with absolute certainty at this stage, one thing I will say is I’ve noticed red foot’s growth ridges tend to be a little more pronounced, which when smaller I think can sometimes give the illusion of the beginning stages of pyramiding. Now obviously I can’t say for sure this isn’t the start of some, but if you’re maintaining your humidity around 85-90, I’d be surprised

I think maybe cause of temperature and humidity unstable.
In October, the temperature dropped to 23-25 Celsius, I didn't turn on the ceramic emitter, that time he ate less than usual.
In November, i turn on the ceramic emitter, the temperature raised to 28-31 Celsius, he ate a lot, the tank wasn't 100% closed(I thought 100% closed can't provide enough oxygen) , so the humidity was around 60-70%. And he always stayed under the ceramic lamp, that was too hot and too dry.
From December, i use a temperature control to keep the temperature around 27 Celsius and tank is 100% closed, so the humidity is around 90%.
Maybe it’s because the environment has changed so much in the past 3 months, and his growth rate changed so much make the ridges not smooth.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I think maybe cause of temperature and humidity unstable.
In October, the temperature dropped to 23-25 Celsius, I didn't turn on the ceramic emitter, that time he ate less than usual.
In November, i turn on the ceramic emitter, the temperature raised to 28-31 Celsius, he ate a lot, the tank wasn't 100% closed(I thought 100% closed can't provide enough oxygen) , so the humidity was around 60-70%. And he always stayed under the ceramic lamp, that was too hot and too dry.
From December, i use a temperature control to keep the temperature around 27 Celsius and tank is 100% closed, so the humidity is around 90%.
Maybe it’s because the environment has changed so much in the past 3 months, and his growth rate changed so much make the ridges not smooth.

yeah your further information definitely makes sense as to why his growth might not be the smoothest. Keep humidity 80+, growth should be smoother moving forward, keep temps in the 82-86f range, your current temps sound pretty spot on now so that’s good!, what kind of bulbs do you use? Just ceramic? Don’t suppose you have a photo of your set up?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hi friends!
Is my redfoot pyramiding? Why these scute lines are 'ups and downs', so rough.
He is 8 months, 170g, 9.5cm length. He is in a 200L fish tank with closed cover. Temperature is between 26-29, humidity is 85-90.
View attachment 385494View attachment 385495View attachment 385496View attachment 385497

Hi!
A very minor uneven growth is present (given the history of humidity and growth rate changes it's okay). One contributing factor can be heaters and lights. Glass tanks have bad thermal insulation and this usually means that heater is working more than needed. You can put some insulation (styrofoam or expanded polystyrene sheets) on the outside walls and see if it helps. If the glass tank sits on the floor, a piece of insulation under the tank can help as well.

 

[Anyfoot]

Growth is perfect up to now. They all look a bit bumpy at this stage. Your tort is at the stage of hardening off(ossification). It should grow out smooth. However every single tort I’ve ever grown is smooth at this stage. If pyramiding is ever to happen it wil happen I. Tge next few months. We all know about humidity. But make sure your tort gets done protein and has plenty of exercise. In my mind if you see the white growth lines (new keratin) that’s a good thing, if you don’t then crevices start to form and minor pyramiding follows. Everytime I feed protein you see the prominent white keratin growth. Moisture allows that new keratin to be supple and tort grows on well. Once your past the ossification stage the growth pattern will more or less remain the same. Good luck. I’ve had many frustrate results from this stage onwards. And plenty of good results. Protein and exercise. Exercise overlooked quite a bit in my opinion. We all pile up the food. Tort eats then rests. With no exercise. Make your tort forage for food.

 

[Tom]

I agree with the other posters. This tortoise is not pyramiding yet, and the growth lines are easily explained by the changes conditions so far.

I would add: 200L is too small. Time for a larger enclosure. It should be a closed chamber. 122x61cm is the minus to start a baby tortoise, and by 170 grams, it is time for something larger than that. I recommend at least 122x244cm as a good size to grow out a tortoise. Once it outgrows that, you'll have to figure out what works in your climate and housing situation.

Ideally the temperature should stay between 27 and 30C all the time. Excessive basking under a CHE or heat lamp WILL eventually cause pyramiding. If you see the tortoise basking a lot, that is an indication that ambient temperature should be warmed up a bit.

Frequent shell spraying with demineralized water, like distilled, RO, or collected rainwater, will also help prevent pyramiding and work well with this species. Don't use demineralized water for drinking or soaking. Use regal water for that. Also be careful that you aren't keeping the substrate too wet too much of the time, as they are prone to shell rot on the plastron in wet conditions. Ideally, the surface layer of substrate can be dry, humidity high, and regular spraying of just the carapace will work wonders. These conditions are easy to achieve in a large closed chamber with thermostatically controlled heat sources.

 

[Anyfoot]

I agree with the other posters. This tortoise is not pyramiding yet, and the growth lines are easily explained by the changes conditions so far.

I would add: 200L is too small. Time for a larger enclosure. It should be a closed chamber. 122x61cm is the minus to start a baby tortoise, and by 170 grams, it is time for something larger than that. I recommend at least 122x244cm as a good size to grow out a tortoise. Once it outgrows that, you'll have to figure out what works in your climate and housing situation.

Ideally the temperature should stay between 27 and 30C all the time. Excessive basking under a CHE or heat lamp WILL eventually cause pyramiding. If you see the tortoise basking a lot, that is an indication that ambient temperature should be warmed up a bit.

Frequent shell spraying with demineralized water, like distilled, RO, or collected rainwater, will also help prevent pyramiding and work well with this species. Don't use demineralized water for drinking or soaking. Use regal water for that. Also be careful that you aren't keeping the substrate too wet too much of the time, as they are prone to shell rot on the plastron in wet conditions. Ideally, the surface layer of substrate can be dry, humidity high, and regular spraying of just the carapace will work wonders. These conditions are easy to achieve in a large closed chamber with thermostatically controlled heat sources.

I May be wrong but I seem to remember you mentioned something about getting some Redfoots a few yrs back. Did that ever happen or am I wrong?

 

[Tom]

I May be wrong but I seem to remember you mentioned something about getting some Redfoots a few yrs back. Did that ever happen or am I wrong?

No. My climate isn't right for them. Too hot in summer, too cold in winter, too dry all the time. This is why I don't keep Indotestudo or Manouria either.

 

[dada625]

Update:
It’s been half a year since my last post. Unfortunately, my redfoot have showed pyramiding.
Since my last post, I've made a new enclosure for him. 180cm*80cm*50cm. The humidity is always 90+ and keep the temperature between 26-30 degrees Celsius. So, now i think the main reason of pyramiding is that i feed too much pallets(70% of the diet). This pallet contain animal based protein.
So I think he get too much nutrition without getting enough exercise.
I will feed him mainly vegetables and grass for now. This is my first redfoot and my first tortoise, i really hope he can grow up healthily.

Here some photos(plz ignore the spiral uvb bulb, i have changed it to T5 tube)

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
Thank you for the update! As far as I can tell - new growth is pretty smooth.

I don't think pellets are the culprit here. Yet, try to keep amount of animal protein at 10-15% of overall diet.

What's the lamp over the watet dish? A halogen or just a LED for more brightness?

 

[dada625]

Hello!
Thank you for the update! As far as I can tell - new growth is pretty smooth.

I don't think pellets are the culprit here. Yet, try to keep amount of animal protein at 10-15% of overall diet.

What's the lamp over the watet dish? A halogen or just a LED for more brightness?

Thank you for your reply, this is just a mini LED for more brightness.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Is that a coil UVB bulb in the middle?

 

[dada625]

Is that a coil UVB bulb in the middle?

Yes it was a coil UVB, i have changed it to a T5 tube UVB.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Yes it was a coil UVB, i have changed it to a T5 tube UVB.

Oh sorry, I now realize I didn't read your post properly

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Update:
It’s been half a year since my last post. Unfortunately, my redfoot have showed pyramiding.
Since my last post, I've made a new enclosure for him. 180cm*80cm*50cm. The humidity is always 90+ and keep the temperature between 26-30 degrees Celsius. So, now i think the main reason of pyramiding is that i feed too much pallets(70% of the diet). This pallet contain animal based protein.
So I think he get too much nutrition without getting enough exercise.
I will feed him mainly vegetables and grass for now. This is my first redfoot and my first tortoise, i really hope he can grow up healthily.

Here some photos(plz ignore the spiral uvb bulb, i have changed it to T5 tube)
View attachment 392747View attachment 392748View attachment 392750View attachment 392752View attachment 392749View attachment 392751

I’d be pretty proud of that growth for a captive red foot, you’re doing a good job! I agree with Alex, I don’t think it’s diet related, but definitely reduce the pellets, main bulk of diet should be weeds, greens, some fruit(you can play around with the ratios), and just a weekly bit of protein. I wouldn’t bother with grasses, they don’t really eat it unless having a munch on it outside

 

[dada625]

I’d be pretty proud of that growth for a captive red foot, you’re doing a good job! I agree with Alex, I don’t think it’s diet related, but definitely reduce the pellets, main bulk of diet should be weeds, greens, some fruit(you can play around with the ratios), and just a weekly bit of protein. I wouldn’t bother with grasses, they don’t really eat it unless having a munch on it outside

Thank you ~