I’m trapped, plz help!

[Liljae9263]

This is going to be a very honest post,

Weeks ago, I received a comment on here that made me feel like I wasn’t doing a good job at caring for Frankie boy and it made me very depressed. (Not only that but my work had gotten BAD for about a month and it JUST started getting better)

I want the best for my baby boy and I TRY my BEST to make that possible but I also know I have limitations. I live in an itty bitty apartment that doesn’t have much room to spare and I certainly don’t have the outdoors room. I wanted to build him a double decker enclosure to give him a little bit more room and when I shared the idea it was almost immediately shot down on here and by my loved ones irl. I never really got in depth feedback to let me know what else I should be making for him if not that. And my loved ones just told me “ur apartment is too small. Ull have to wait till u get something bigger. He’s fine in there.” They don’t understand that he’s a roaming animal and needs the room. Not only that but it just makes me so sad seeing him in there. Like Ik he deserves better and I keep having that voice in my head telling me I’m doing a terrible job.

We all know the job market is trash rn and that even though I am making the most I have ever made in my life it is still not enough for me to afford anything more than my tiny busted up apartment. And I know that earning more money is going to continue to be an uphill battle like it has been for the last 5 years of my life. So getting a bigger place is FAR off. That’s why I’m trying to make a good home for me and baby boy HERE. I’ve been using the money I have left over at the end of the month to buy things to make the apartment nicer and I WANT to give some to Franklin but idk what to do.

Idk if I’m explaining this well, I just wish someone could tell me “this is possible. U can do this” or that I could SEE what is some options for me. I feel so stuck where I am.

A part of the comment I received pointed out that Franklin was pyramiding. And yall KNOW I am always paranoid about that. I thought he was doing good, I thought I fixed it, but I haven’t seen any new healthy growth and idk what’s wrong. The only thing I can think of is that the UVB bar isn’t in a good spot for him to get the vitamins. He normally stays on the basking side and the bar is in the middle, where I was told to put it. I wonder if moving it towards the basking side would help him get what he needs. (I’ve asked my folks to help me upgrade his current enclosure if I can’t build him a whole new one and part of that was moving the bar and I haven’t really heard anything back so I’m trying to figure out how to do it on my own or if there is someone else in my life I can ask :/)

I’m not sure what else I could be doing wrong if it’s not that. His humidity stays in the 70-90 % range especially since it’s been consistently in the 90’s over here. His temps all look good. He still eats endive and radicchio as I’m STILL trying to figure out the best way to grow the plants he actually needs, but he gets his pellets and Miner-all once a week like I was told. He gets hay to munch on through out the week and I also have a tortoise grass mix that was highly suggested on here I give him once or twice a week. He gets soaked every other day for at least 45 min. And he seems overall healthy. He does his daily walks, basks, eats, sleeps. I’m not sure what could be making him pyramid still and how to fix it.

I’m also dealing with a serious gnat problem. They are everywhere! I have multiple plants in my place and I spray them with safe pesticide but franklins enclosure is basically just a big box of moist dirt, exactly what they love, and I can’t just load that down with pesticides and hope it doesn’t hurt Frankie. My brilliant plan so far is just to get those gnat ribbons and put it up at the top of his enclosure so Franklin won’t be anywhere near it and HOPE it catches a good deal of them. Otherwise idk what to do. He doesn’t seem to mind them but I DO. They’re driving me crazy and I want them gone UGH.

I don’t want to give up on him. I love him so much and I want the best for us both. I want to be an old fart living on a big property with my tortoise roaming around, but I’m not there yet. Ik it is not fair to keep leaving his needs on the back burner bc “the place isn’t big enough”. I want to do SOMETHING to make it better now. I’m just not sure what anymore. If anyone has any ideas PLZ let me know. I feel so utterly trapped and I want to do SOMETHING for him.

(Added some pics so yall can see his growth!)

 

[Ink]

Cute tortoise.

 

[Yvonne G]

He looks pretty darned good to me!

Is there any way to build him an enclosure on top of your furniture? Like two bureaus side be side with the enclosure covering both tops? Then maybe a double decker on top of that? I know you're creative. You can figure it out!!!

 

[Liljae9263]

He looks pretty darned good to me!

Is there any way to build him an enclosure on top of your furniture? Like two bureaus side be side with the enclosure covering both tops? Then maybe a double decker on top of that? I know you're creative. You can figure it out!!!

Does he ? Ik he’s had pyramiding in the past so I didn’t no if the comment was seeing that but I’ve always been bad at seeing the growth unless it’s VERY visible. He’s getting nice and big and chunky so ik he’s done some good growing and prob has some more left.

My plan was to move him into my bed room so that we could share a heater in the winter (as the heat bill was excessive this past winter) but the bedroom is rather small for us both to share so I’m trying to work out a way to get him (and more space for him) + my bed + my huge dresser + little night stand. Those r really the only things I care to put in there. I have to do more measuring and look at more stuff. If I’m thinking of the right thing 2 bureaus aren’t gonna fit. but I appreciate the idea!

My original idea was getting 2 cheap book shelves and kinda stacking them on top of one another for the double decker part. Of course there’s added stuff bc u gotta have space to put the lights and get it off the floor and make a ramp but it was my best thought for it. THATS the one that got shut down quickly.

I was then wondering if I could use the base of his current enclosure and make IT a double decker. Just add another level or a half level and a ramp. My folks shot that down too :/. I’m not a constructive person AT ALL and I’m a v visual person so I ask them if it’s POSSIBLE. Most my ideas which I thought sounded good they say no. that’s y I’m looking for other people to ask bc idk. More ideas is always welcome

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Does he ? Ik he’s had pyramiding in the past so I didn’t no if the comment was seeing that but I’ve always been bad at seeing the growth unless it’s VERY visible. He’s getting nice and big and chunky so ik he’s done some good growing and prob has some more left.

My plan was to move him into my bed room so that we could share a heater in the winter (as the heat bill was excessive this past winter) but the bedroom is rather small for us both to share so I’m trying to work out a way to get him (and more space for him) + my bed + my huge dresser + little night stand. Those r really the only things I care to put in there. I have to do more measuring and look at more stuff. If I’m thinking of the right thing 2 bureaus aren’t gonna fit. but I appreciate the idea!

My original idea was getting 2 cheap book shelves and kinda stacking them on top of one another for the double decker part. Of course there’s added stuff bc u gotta have space to put the lights and get it off the floor and make a ramp but it was my best thought for it. THATS the one that got shut down quickly.

I was then wondering if I could use the base of his current enclosure and make IT a double decker. Just add another level or a half level and a ramp. My folks shot that down too :/. I’m not a constructive person AT ALL and I’m a v visual person so I ask them if it’s POSSIBLE. Most my ideas which I thought sounded good they say no. that’s y I’m looking for other people to ask bc idk. More ideas is always welcome

What about a loft bed so the enclosure could be under your bed?

 

[mark1]

They don’t understand that he’s a roaming animal and needs the room.

while room is always best, tortoises and turtles are not "roaming" animals , they move no further than they have to, it depends on the resources available...... in the wild some lifelong home ranges are no more than a half of a football field... they can move a couple hundred feet a day maybe for 1/3rd of the year

when i was young in an apartment i kept redfoot and elongated tortoise in 6 foot x 2 foot enclosures 7 months out of the year, the remaining 4-5 months i kept them in my parents backyard, in northeast ohio....... i had them well over 10yrs, some were bought as adults., and were large tortoises......

i'd be more concerned with mental enrichment........ encouraging natural behaviors...... a two tiered enclosure would help with that........ food where he has to look for it, a temperature gradient where he has to thermoregulate.......

my opinion is anyone who owns turtles or tortoises goal should be to keep them outdoors.....

 

[Liljae9263]

while room is always best, tortoises and turtles are not "roaming" animals , they move no further than they have to, it depends on the resources available...... in the wild some lifelong home ranges are no more than a half of a football field... they can move a couple hundred feet a day maybe for 1/3rd of the year

when i was young in an apartment i kept redfoot and elongated tortoise in 6 foot x 2 foot enclosures 7 months out of the year, the remaining 4-5 months i kept them in my parents backyard, in northeast ohio....... i had them well over 10yrs, some were bought as adults., and were large tortoises......

i'd be more concerned with mental enrichment........ encouraging natural behaviors...... a two tiered enclosure would help with that........ food where he has to look for it, a temperature gradient where he has to thermoregulate.......

my opinion is anyone who owns turtles or tortoises goal should be to keep them outdoors.....

Yes my goal is to one day have a house that has lots of outdoor space. Maybe near future it would be nice to move up to a place that has a balcony or patio I could actually set him up in. The apartment I’m in rn has a patio but it’s all concrete, tiny, and the neighbors kids r always going in it and slamming their ball into it and other parts of my building. Plus there’s a big stray cat population here and I don’t feel safe putting Frankie out there for a SECOND.

For now I’m just trying to give him a happier home. He is in a 6x2 enclosure and I’m not sure if going a bigger than that it’ll fit anywhere in the apartment, that’s y I’m thinking about a double decker design. My folks don’t want anything to do with pet care. Don’t get me wrong they love Frankie but his care is solely on me, they don’t want to be any part of the actual “care” part of it. So putting him in their back yard for part of the year like u did was never in the question for me :/

Do u have any other suggestions for engagement ? I’ve been struggling to find stuff that works? I would hide his food around his enclosure but he never seemed to care about that. I changed his enclosure around maybe once a month but I’ve found a set up he seems to really enjoy so I don’t wanna change it. There’s not a lot of “enrichment toys” for tortoises I’m finding . I’d love to make it more fun and exciting for him!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

A metal guinea pig hay ball has worked for me. It is hung in the enclosure and makes the tortoise work for its food.

 

[mark1]

they're creatures of habit, i'm not sure changing their enclosure would be enrichment, it might be more like stressful, i guess even stress is some kind of mental enrichment? encouraging natural behaviors is what i think is enrichment..... give him a small second floor, put water up there , with a heat lamp on a timer over it, they'll learn when the light comes on and use it....... a lot of different temperatures in the enclosure i would say is enrichment, different hides in different heat gradients...... when it's cold or cool they chase the sun, they know when and where, when it's hot they find the shade... in a sufficient environment they appear to me to be completely predictable... imo, from my observation, the reason the older they get the longer their life expectancy becomes......it's because they develop habits, good habits increase survival, bad habits decrease survival, the older they get the less "bad habits" they got........

i'm convinced one of the healthiest things about being outside is the temperature fluctuations, they're always reacting/thinking, it's what they do, thermoregulate, eat, and reproduce......

probably the minimum home range for a wild tortoise like yours is 40,000 square feet...... is 32 square feet beneficially better than 12 square feet as far as exercise??? i have my doubts....... where 32square feet is more beneficial, imo, is in how many heat gradients you can make..... but you can make a pretty good single heat gradient in a 20 gallon long aquarium for hatchlings.....

 

[Liljae9263]

A metal guinea pig hay ball has worked for me. It is hung in the enclosure and makes the tortoise work for its food.

I didn’t even know that exists ! Thank u! I will look into it !

 

[Ink]

Make sure he doesn't bite the metal. My opinion, I have never tried it.

 

[Liljae9263]

they're creatures of habit, i'm not sure changing their enclosure would be enrichment, it might be more like stressful, i guess even stress is some kind of mental enrichment? encouraging natural behaviors is what i think is enrichment..... give him a small second floor, put water up there , with a heat lamp on a timer over it, they'll learn when the light comes on and use it....... a lot of different temperatures in the enclosure i would say is enrichment, different hides in different heat gradients...... when it's cold or cool they chase the sun, they know when and where, when it's hot they find the shade... in a sufficient environment they appear to me to be completely predictable... imo, from my observation, the reason the older they get the longer their life expectancy becomes......it's because they develop habits, good habits increase survival, bad habits decrease survival, the older they get the less "bad habits" they got........

i'm convinced one of the healthiest things about being outside is the temperature fluctuations, they're always reacting/thinking, it's what they do, thermoregulate, eat, and reproduce......

Huh, I always thought it was better to have predictable temps for them so it’s “cozier”. I like the idea of a raised platform with heat. So would that mean having 2 heat lamps and they rotate their schedules throughout the day? For example: one lamp is on for the first half of the day and then it cuts off and the second lamp comes on for the second half? That way he has to learn to go to the different lamps at diff times? I haven’t had the room for lots of different hides but I have been thinking of getting vines and stapling them to the side of the enclosure to make an “overgrowth hide”. A hide without taking up floor space. I saw someone else do it and I’ve thought it was such a cool idea ever since!

 

[mark1]

in nature temperature fluctuations are predictable........ i'm pretty sure they can see heat, if not they're really good guessers.....

my wood turtle enclosures has a lot of shade throughout the day, when i go look for them i just look where the sun is, different places throughout the day and seasons, but they always know where to be......

 

[Tom]

This is going to be a very honest post,

Weeks ago, I received a comment on here that made me feel like I wasn’t doing a good job at caring for Frankie boy and it made me very depressed. (Not only that but my work had gotten BAD for about a month and it JUST started getting better)

I want the best for my baby boy and I TRY my BEST to make that possible but I also know I have limitations. I live in an itty bitty apartment that doesn’t have much room to spare and I certainly don’t have the outdoors room. I wanted to build him a double decker enclosure to give him a little bit more room and when I shared the idea it was almost immediately shot down on here and by my loved ones irl. I never really got in depth feedback to let me know what else I should be making for him if not that. And my loved ones just told me “ur apartment is too small. Ull have to wait till u get something bigger. He’s fine in there.” They don’t understand that he’s a roaming animal and needs the room. Not only that but it just makes me so sad seeing him in there. Like Ik he deserves better and I keep having that voice in my head telling me I’m doing a terrible job.

We all know the job market is trash rn and that even though I am making the most I have ever made in my life it is still not enough for me to afford anything more than my tiny busted up apartment. And I know that earning more money is going to continue to be an uphill battle like it has been for the last 5 years of my life. So getting a bigger place is FAR off. That’s why I’m trying to make a good home for me and baby boy HERE. I’ve been using the money I have left over at the end of the month to buy things to make the apartment nicer and I WANT to give some to Franklin but idk what to do.

Idk if I’m explaining this well, I just wish someone could tell me “this is possible. U can do this” or that I could SEE what is some options for me. I feel so stuck where I am.

A part of the comment I received pointed out that Franklin was pyramiding. And yall KNOW I am always paranoid about that. I thought he was doing good, I thought I fixed it, but I haven’t seen any new healthy growth and idk what’s wrong. The only thing I can think of is that the UVB bar isn’t in a good spot for him to get the vitamins. He normally stays on the basking side and the bar is in the middle, where I was told to put it. I wonder if moving it towards the basking side would help him get what he needs. (I’ve asked my folks to help me upgrade his current enclosure if I can’t build him a whole new one and part of that was moving the bar and I haven’t really heard anything back so I’m trying to figure out how to do it on my own or if there is someone else in my life I can ask :/)

I’m not sure what else I could be doing wrong if it’s not that. His humidity stays in the 70-90 % range especially since it’s been consistently in the 90’s over here. His temps all look good. He still eats endive and radicchio as I’m STILL trying to figure out the best way to grow the plants he actually needs, but he gets his pellets and Miner-all once a week like I was told. He gets hay to munch on through out the week and I also have a tortoise grass mix that was highly suggested on here I give him once or twice a week. He gets soaked every other day for at least 45 min. And he seems overall healthy. He does his daily walks, basks, eats, sleeps. I’m not sure what could be making him pyramid still and how to fix it.

I’m also dealing with a serious gnat problem. They are everywhere! I have multiple plants in my place and I spray them with safe pesticide but franklins enclosure is basically just a big box of moist dirt, exactly what they love, and I can’t just load that down with pesticides and hope it doesn’t hurt Frankie. My brilliant plan so far is just to get those gnat ribbons and put it up at the top of his enclosure so Franklin won’t be anywhere near it and HOPE it catches a good deal of them. Otherwise idk what to do. He doesn’t seem to mind them but I DO. They’re driving me crazy and I want them gone UGH.

I don’t want to give up on him. I love him so much and I want the best for us both. I want to be an old fart living on a big property with my tortoise roaming around, but I’m not there yet. Ik it is not fair to keep leaving his needs on the back burner bc “the place isn’t big enough”. I want to do SOMETHING to make it better now. I’m just not sure what anymore. If anyone has any ideas PLZ let me know. I feel so utterly trapped and I want to do SOMETHING for him.

(Added some pics so yall can see his growth!)


View attachment 401019View attachment 401020View attachment 401021

I think I can clear up a few things for you:

1. The UV tube needs to be near the heat lamp. They need heat for the UV to work. I don't know who told you to put it in the middle, but that is not correct.
2. Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. UV, or lack of UV does not cause pyramiding.

High humidity cannot be maintained in open topped enclosures any normal room, even in a humid climate. Placing the hygrometer directly on damp substrate will make it seem higher than it really is. The proof is in the new growth. You need a closed chamber to contain higher levels of humidity.

Also, what type of basking bulb, and what type of UV bulb are you using? The wrong type of bulb can cause pyramiding even in a humid closed chamber.

Your tortoise is mostly grown. You don't really have to worry about pyramiding anymore.

3. This is not a grass eating species. They should never be fed hay. While grass won't harm them, it's also not really what they need. Chopped fresh grass can be used to add fiber to grocery store greens, but better to just feed high fiber foods in the first place, which brings me too...

4. They need more than endive, radicchio, and pellets. What pellets are you feeding? They need broadleaf weeds and leaves. Natural foods are best. In your climate there are weeds, trees and flowers everywhere. The best food is free. Take some time to learn to ID the plants around you and make that the majority of the diet. Mulberry leaves, grape leaves, mallow, sow thistle, dandelions, rose of Sharon leaves and flowers, broadleaf plantain, narrow leaf plantain, hostas, clover... the list is endless.

5. Animals need what they need. They don't care about your finances or space constraints. Your tortoise needs space in a large safe enclosure. Either give the tortoise what it needs, or give it to someone who will. Giving this tortoise up, thankfully, does not seem like an option for you, so let's get to work figuring out how to give it what it needs within your current framework.

Outside is best. Everyone has cats, pests, and wild predators everywhere in this country. We all figure out how to make that work. If outside is not an option, then let's make inside work. How about this: Get a 4x8 sheet of ply wood, put 18 inch tall walls on it, legs, casters if you want to be able to move it, and stick it under a south facing window. In nice weather open the window and let the sun in. Be careful that there is always shade somewhere, and that the whole enclosure doesn't over heat. This should work in a large open table. It would not work in a small glass tank. Make the legs 30-36 inches tall, and store stuff underneath the big table. You could get fancy and make the area underneath a big giant rolling cabinet with doors and all.

Alternatively, a large closed chamber would solve all of your humidty and temperature problems. You can get a Smart Enclosure from Mark, or buy one from Animal Plastics and do-it-yourself. Either can be put on top of the same sort of giant rolling cabinet if you like.

6. If any of your friends or family are not supportive, stop talking to them about it. They don't care. I live this every day. My job, my hobbies, my sports, my career, my pastimes all involve animals. All day every day, nothing but animals. I wake up caring for animals, care for animals all day long, and then do all my animals chores at night before bed. There is no break. No rest. No vacation from it. I love it and wouldn't know how to live any other way. Some people don't get it. It's just not their thing to spend time, money and effort caring for animals. It brings me joy, happiness and peace. Nobody else has to understand it. Stop barking up the wrong tree looking for approval and help from people who don't understand your obsession. This forum is the right tree. We get it. We can easily see what this animal means to you, and while we might to be able to help you build an enclosure, we can offer help, understanding, and moral support. Some might call it "enabling". Okay. I'm fine with that label. There is a reason why so many of us come here and talk about tortoises all day every day. My family is not on here. It's not their thing. Other like-minded tortoise keepers are here, and that is who I am here to talk to. YOU! in other words. Now let's put our heads together and help you solve your space issues!

 

[Liljae9263]

I think I can clear up a few things for you:

1. The UV tube needs to be near the heat lamp. They need heat for the UV to work. I don't know who told you to put it in the middle, but that is not correct.
2. Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. UV, or lack of UV does not cause pyramiding.

High humidity cannot be maintained in open topped enclosures any normal room, even in a humid climate. Placing the hygrometer directly on damp substrate will make it seem higher than it really is. The proof is in the new growth. You need a closed chamber to contain higher levels of humidity.

Also, what type of basking bulb, and what type of UV bulb are you using? The wrong type of bulb can cause pyramiding even in a humid closed chamber.

Your tortoise is mostly grown. You don't really have to worry about pyramiding anymore.

3. This is not a grass eating species. They should never be fed hay. While grass won't harm them, it's also not really what they need. Chopped fresh grass can be used to add fiber to grocery store greens, but better to just feed high fiber foods in the first place, which brings me too...

4. They need more than endive, radicchio, and pellets. What pellets are you feeding? They need broadleaf weeds and leaves. Natural foods are best. In your climate there are weeds, trees and flowers everywhere. The best food is free. Take some time to learn to ID the plants around you and make that the majority of the diet. Mulberry leaves, grape leaves, mallow, sow thistle, dandelions, rose of Sharon leaves and flowers, broadleaf plantain, narrow leaf plantain, hostas, clover... the list is endless.

5. Animals need what they need. They don't care about your finances or space constraints. Your tortoise needs space in a large safe enclosure. Either give the tortoise what it needs, or give it to someone who will. Giving this tortoise up, thankfully, does not seem like an option for you, so let's get to work figuring out how to give it what it needs within your current framework.

Outside is best. Everyone has cats, pests, and wild predators everywhere in this country. We all figure out how to make that work. If outside is not an option, then let's make inside work. How about this: Get a 4x8 sheet of ply wood, put 18 inch tall walls on it, legs, casters if you want to be able to move it, and stick it under a south facing window. In nice weather open the window and let the sun in. Be careful that there is always shade somewhere, and that the whole enclosure doesn't over heat. This should work in a large open table. It would not work in a small glass tank. Make the legs 30-36 inches tall, and store stuff underneath the big table. You could get fancy and make the area underneath a big giant rolling cabinet with doors and all.

Alternatively, a large closed chamber would solve all of your humidty and temperature problems. You can get a Smart Enclosure from Mark, or buy one from Animal Plastics and do-it-yourself. Either can be put on top of the same sort of giant rolling cabinet if you like.

6. If any of your friends or family are not supportive, stop talking to them about it. They don't care. I live this every day. My job, my hobbies, my sports, my career, my pastimes all involve animals. All day every day, nothing but animals. I wake up caring for animals, care for animals all day long, and then do all my animals chores at night before bed. There is no break. No rest. No vacation from it. I love it and wouldn't know how to live any other way. Some people don't get it. It's just not their thing to spend time, money and effort caring for animals. It brings me joy, happiness and peace. Nobody else has to understand it. Stop barking up the wrong tree looking for approval and help from people who don't understand your obsession. This forum is the right tree. We get it. We can easily see what this animal means to you, and while we might to be able to help you build an enclosure, we can offer help, understanding, and moral support. Some might call it "enabling". Okay. I'm fine with that label. There is a reason why so many of us come here and talk about tortoises all day every day. My family is not on here. It's not their thing. Other like-minded tortoise keepers are here, and that is who I am here to talk to. YOU! in other words. Now let's put our heads together and help you solve your space issues!

I DIDNT FORGET ABOUT THIS POST! I just was in survival mode for the week and now I’m back!!

So I really wanna learn so I’m here’s my responses:

1. He is in what I thought was a closed chamber. We built a lid that sits on top oh his enclosure to keep humidity in. I’ve had his hygrometer off the ground b4 and on the ground, it reads the same around 70-90% humidity so I figured that means it’s working properly and the humidity is where it should be. I have it in the corner on the ground there bc Franklin tramples it every second he gets when anywhere else but he seems to mostly leave it alone there. It sits on dry bark there. So if his humidity is actually where it should be idk how he’s not hydrated enough ?? (Also I will move the uvb closer to the heat lamp now that Ik. Im looking into getting a new uvb bulb. Idk how long I’ve had the old one but I feel like it might be good just to be sure it’s working. And YES I know I can buy a little gun that tells me if the uvb is still working but I just don’t have the $ for it rn. They r PRICEY!)

2. The uvb is I think the shade dweller one from Arcadia ?? Everywhere I looked people were suggesting it. And the basking is also Arcadia. It’s the solar basking floodlight 75w heat one. I get specifically that one bc it’s the only one that I feel works properly for his needs and again highly suggested. Ik u can get just regular incandescent bulbs but I couldn’t find them ANYWHERE. I searched 4 stores back to back looking for them when his first basking bulb blew and couldn’t find a single one under 200w which I thought would BAKE him and online it was about the same. My folks told me they were banned from being made a while back and since then they just haven’t really put them back into circulation for easy purchasing. So I go with the Arcadia since it’s all I can find . They do blow out super easy which is annoying but I work with what I have.

3. Franklin honestly doesn’t eat the hay. He doesn’t care about it AT ALL. I was just throwing it in there bc ik it could be used for extra fiber so just in case . I feed him Mazuri tortoise diet pellets the regular ones. I give him 3 pellets, soak and mush them, once a week. This is as suggested on here. I do give him other food besides endive and lettuce and radicchio. Sometimes I get him dandelion leaves, bok choy, frisée, etc. depends on what I can afford and find at the store.

4. I live in the city so not really plants just growing around and even when I do see a dandelion or so growing outside I’m afraid it’s got pesticides or something on it so I don’t grab it. I walk a trail pretty often that is maintained by a recreation center and see lots of p flowers and plants including dandelions and every time I go to grab one for Frankie I think of “what if they put something on it and it hurts him?” And I leave it. This is y I’ve been TRYING to grow my own weeds for him. I failed miserably with my first batch but I have found a new way to germinate that I want to try. (Plus I had an infestation of thrips last month and lost a lot of plants so they wouldn’t have survived that anyways :/) There’s not really a place to buy already potted and grown weeds for tortoises anywhere around. People don’t really wanna buy WEEDS like that so . I’ve been looking to no avail.

5. I am talking to a family friend about designing some ways to improve his current enclosure now and then in the future maybe designing something bigger and better. Rn we r discussing adding a top layer in his current enclosure and adding another heat lamp over it to make a heat gradient like the other person suggested. Then make a hide under that and I’m going to look for more hides and enrichment things in general for him to make his current enclosure less bare.

6. It seems weird u suggest to cut off my family bc they dont understand and want to talk about my tortoise ? Maybe I’m reading that wrong. It’s not like they’re not supportive, like I said they LOVE Franklin. When I still lived with them, my mom checked on Franklin every morn b4 work and sat with him. She misses doing that now. And they have helped TREMENDOUSLY with his enclosure. They basically made the enclosure all by themselves from scratch for me and helped me set it up and then move it all the way to my apartment when I moved. My mom has bought Franklin goodies b4. They love him. However they made it clear to me when I got him that his care was MY responsibility and that was that. So I feed him and soak him and clean his enclosure all on my own. I figure out what he needs, what updates I need to make. I do the research. I spend my money for him. That’s what I meant by his care is on me, not them. I was asking them for help in actually BUILDING an enclosure, not there thoughts on it per se. I have no construction know how AT ALL. I struggled just to put a shelf up last week so I’m just asking family members to help me build him a new enclosure or the updates he needs. Besides, even if I did build it by myself, moving it or the old enclosure is way too big a task for me. I would physically need at least 1 or 2 more people to help me with that. I HAVE to ask for help. Maybe I’m reading ur message there wrong but it doesn’t sound right to not ask for help if I physically need it? It is not safe or fair for me to struggle to do this by myself when I have loved ones who ARE willing to help me.

Besides that I put up the fly strip in his enclosure and it worked like a charm. The whole thing filled up within a day. I also have a zevo plug in and put up another fly strip outside his enclosure and I’m slowly but surely getting this gnat population down . I have discovered moths in his enclosure now tho. I think I know exactly what kind too and I will be working on getting rid of them ASAP. We had an infestation of them at one of my old jobs and I will NOT have that happen in my house soooooo yea.

It seems with every step I take, I have to take 3 steps back bc I find out I’m still getting bad advice and need to do even MORE research and fix my problems YET AGAIN . But I love baby boy so I will. I just can’t wait for the day I can safely say ik what I’m doing and he has a really happy healthy enclosure/life going for him

and I JUST realized I’m about to hit my adoption anniversary day for Franklin (jul 1st) I’ve almost had him a full year now ! :O Time sure flies !

 

[Tom]

I DIDNT FORGET ABOUT THIS POST! I just was in survival mode for the week and now I’m back!!

So I really wanna learn so I’m here’s my responses:

1. He is in what I thought was a closed chamber. We built a lid that sits on top oh his enclosure to keep humidity in. I’ve had his hygrometer off the ground b4 and on the ground, it reads the same around 70-90% humidity so I figured that means it’s working properly and the humidity is where it should be. I have it in the corner on the ground there bc Franklin tramples it every second he gets when anywhere else but he seems to mostly leave it alone there. It sits on dry bark there. So if his humidity is actually where it should be idk how he’s not hydrated enough ?? (Also I will move the uvb closer to the heat lamp now that Ik. Im looking into getting a new uvb bulb. Idk how long I’ve had the old one but I feel like it might be good just to be sure it’s working. And YES I know I can buy a little gun that tells me if the uvb is still working but I just don’t have the $ for it rn. They r PRICEY!)

2. The uvb is I think the shade dweller one from Arcadia ?? Everywhere I looked people were suggesting it. And the basking is also Arcadia. It’s the solar basking floodlight 75w heat one. I get specifically that one bc it’s the only one that I feel works properly for his needs and again highly suggested. Ik u can get just regular incandescent bulbs but I couldn’t find them ANYWHERE. I searched 4 stores back to back looking for them when his first basking bulb blew and couldn’t find a single one under 200w which I thought would BAKE him and online it was about the same. My folks told me they were banned from being made a while back and since then they just haven’t really put them back into circulation for easy purchasing. So I go with the Arcadia since it’s all I can find . They do blow out super easy which is annoying but I work with what I have.

3. Franklin honestly doesn’t eat the hay. He doesn’t care about it AT ALL. I was just throwing it in there bc ik it could be used for extra fiber so just in case . I feed him Mazuri tortoise diet pellets the regular ones. I give him 3 pellets, soak and mush them, once a week. This is as suggested on here. I do give him other food besides endive and lettuce and radicchio. Sometimes I get him dandelion leaves, bok choy, frisée, etc. depends on what I can afford and find at the store.

4. I live in the city so not really plants just growing around and even when I do see a dandelion or so growing outside I’m afraid it’s got pesticides or something on it so I don’t grab it. I walk a trail pretty often that is maintained by a recreation center and see lots of p flowers and plants including dandelions and every time I go to grab one for Frankie I think of “what if they put something on it and it hurts him?” And I leave it. This is y I’ve been TRYING to grow my own weeds for him. I failed miserably with my first batch but I have found a new way to germinate that I want to try. (Plus I had an infestation of thrips last month and lost a lot of plants so they wouldn’t have survived that anyways :/) There’s not really a place to buy already potted and grown weeds for tortoises anywhere around. People don’t really wanna buy WEEDS like that so . I’ve been looking to no avail.

5. I am talking to a family friend about designing some ways to improve his current enclosure now and then in the future maybe designing something bigger and better. Rn we r discussing adding a top layer in his current enclosure and adding another heat lamp over it to make a heat gradient like the other person suggested. Then make a hide under that and I’m going to look for more hides and enrichment things in general for him to make his current enclosure less bare.

6. It seems weird u suggest to cut off my family bc they dont understand and want to talk about my tortoise ? Maybe I’m reading that wrong. It’s not like they’re not supportive, like I said they LOVE Franklin. When I still lived with them, my mom checked on Franklin every morn b4 work and sat with him. She misses doing that now. And they have helped TREMENDOUSLY with his enclosure. They basically made the enclosure all by themselves from scratch for me and helped me set it up and then move it all the way to my apartment when I moved. My mom has bought Franklin goodies b4. They love him. However they made it clear to me when I got him that his care was MY responsibility and that was that. So I feed him and soak him and clean his enclosure all on my own. I figure out what he needs, what updates I need to make. I do the research. I spend my money for him. That’s what I meant by his care is on me, not them. I was asking them for help in actually BUILDING an enclosure, not there thoughts on it per se. I have no construction know how AT ALL. I struggled just to put a shelf up last week so I’m just asking family members to help me build him a new enclosure or the updates he needs. Besides, even if I did build it by myself, moving it or the old enclosure is way too big a task for me. I would physically need at least 1 or 2 more people to help me with that. I HAVE to ask for help. Maybe I’m reading ur message there wrong but it doesn’t sound right to not ask for help if I physically need it? It is not safe or fair for me to struggle to do this by myself when I have loved ones who ARE willing to help me.

Besides that I put up the fly strip in his enclosure and it worked like a charm. The whole thing filled up within a day. I also have a zevo plug in and put up another fly strip outside his enclosure and I’m slowly but surely getting this gnat population down . I have discovered moths in his enclosure now tho. I think I know exactly what kind too and I will be working on getting rid of them ASAP. We had an infestation of them at one of my old jobs and I will NOT have that happen in my house soooooo yea.

It seems with every step I take, I have to take 3 steps back bc I find out I’m still getting bad advice and need to do even MORE research and fix my problems YET AGAIN . But I love baby boy so I will. I just can’t wait for the day I can safely say ik what I’m doing and he has a really happy healthy enclosure/life going for him

and I JUST realized I’m about to hit my adoption anniversary day for Franklin (jul 1st) I’ve almost had him a full year now ! :O Time sure flies !

1. Are the heat and lights contained inside the enclosure under the lid you made? If yes, then you are good on that part. If they are outside the enclosure on top, and outside of the lid, then its a problem.

2. Arcadia flood bulbs are just regular flood bulbs in fancy packaging. They are great, so you are good there. Shade dwelling UV tubes are for tortoise species that dwell in the shade. Your species dwells in the sun. It sounds like you found some bad sources for care info. I would normally recommend the 12% HO Arcadia tubes for a hermanni. The only reason to recommend a 6% tube would be if you are mounting it closer than the recommended 18-21 inches for the 12% bulbs. So how close are you mounting it? Without a meter we are all just guessing at how much UV is actually reaching your tortoise. If your tortoise is getting regular sunshine in an outdoor pen, then indoor UV isn't critical. If your tortoise is indoors all the time, then you need to know your UV levels and adjust accordingly. Sure the meters are expensive, but vet bills to diagnose and treat MBD are MUCH more expensive, not to mention the suffering of your tortoise and your mental anguish over something that could have been easily prevented if you had only known what your UV levels were. For an indoor only tortoise, $300 is cheap insurance and peace of mind. If you don't want to buy the meter, then figure out a way to get your tortoise outside for some access to sunshine on a regular basis. With an hour or two of access to sunshine a few times per week, the UV needs will be met. Make sure there is always deep shade available and that the tortoise doesn't over heat.

3. You can skip the hay entirely. Learn to ID your local plants and weeds, and feed your tortoise with those. It is better food for the tortoise and it is FREE! Grocery store greens should be an expensive last resort for when you just can't find anything better. This time of year you have weeds a plenty, grape and mulberry leaves, spineless opuntia pads, rose of Sharon leaves and flowers, kudzu leaves, hostas... the list is endless. If you stop buying grocery store greens, you'll save up enough to buy a meter in no time!

4. When scrounging for weeds look for sources that are unkempt, and look for signs of insect infestation. Look for spider webs, holes chewed in the leaves, ants nearby, bugs on the plants, etc... We each have to learn our local areas and where stuff might be sprayed. There are weed patches I used to scrounge from, and then one year I saw them spraying the area for weeds instead of weed whacking it. I stopped going there. Insecticides are expensive. Paying someone to apply them is expensive. People aren't go to just spray this stuff everywhere in the world. In a managed park or apartment complex with a groundskeeping staff, yes. On a wild hiking trail through woods, it's not likely.

Herbicidal sprays tend to be oily so that they stick to the leaves and kill the weeds. They also start to discolor the weed leaves within minutes in most cases, so you can easily tell if these have been recently applied.

Friends, family and neighbors usually know what has been done, or not done, in their own yards, so those tend to be safe sources too.

I've been scrounging tortoise food from all over the place for decades and I have never had any problems. I feed scrounged weeds and leaves to dozens of tortoises almost every day, and have done it this way since the 90s. It's better for them, and it's free.

5. Do whatever you can. Go big. You will never feel like you made any enclosure too big when it's done. The tortoise will use every square inch you can give it. Try the two story thing if you must, but be aware that sometimes they don't like it and won't use it. I've tried it, and I didn't like the results. That is why I don't recommend it to other people. If you do it and your tortoise uses both levels, then great. I find it best to make it large enough all on one level.

6. Oh good heavens no. I didn't suggest cutting your family off. I said "stop talking to them about it." "It" being your love of reptiles and fascination with tortoises. I said this because of what you said in the second paragraph of your first post in this thread about how they shot down your ideas and they don't understand his needs. I have lots of hobbies and interests. I've learned to save the conversation and enthusiasm about these things for the other people who share the enthusiasm for the same things. I talk about my falconry with other falconers. I talk about tortoises with my tortoise friends. Snakes with other snake keepers, parrots with parrot people, etc... The snake people don't want to hear about my latest parrot training accomplishment. They will politely listen for a minute, but even a moron like me can see them squirming and looking for a way to escape their captivity... The loved ones you mentioned in that paragraph clearly don't get it and aren't into it, so my suggestion was to stop looking to them for validation and support in THIS tortoise matter. Find your tortoise support and validation with other tortoise addicts. Like all of us here on this forum. Definitely keep your friends, family and loved ones around and close for all other aspects of your life. Just realize they don't have the interest in or understanding of tortoise care that you do.

Reaserch. Its good. Its necessary. It can be helpful, but... Almost everything you find for tortoises will be bad care info. Vets, FB, YT, pet stores, etc... Most of the info coming from seemingly credible sources like these is old, wrong info. This forum is the only place I know of giving out the correct care info, and there are so many people here that even here we disagree on some points. Its hard to know who to listen too, but when someone tells you to put the UV over the middle instead of near the heat lamp, or use a shade dwelling bulb over a sun loving species, then something is amiss. If the UV tube has to be very close to the tortoise due to enclosure construction or something, then a shade dweller bulb might actually be good advice, but not in general for your species. The good news is that you are here. We are all eager to help you succeed. When someone suggests a shade dweller bulb for a hermanni, you can ask us why they would do that, and we can help you figure out what is going on, and what the best course of action might be. We've got some smart and very experienced people here in this wonderful group. You are formally invited, in writing now, to take advantage of the vast experience and willingness to help of the membership here.

 

[zolasmum]

Congratulations on almost reaching your first year with Franklin ! Our little Zola reaches his 26th birthday on July 8th, and he has been with us since he was a baby. It has been a wonderful experience watching him grow and form a relationship with us - the one thing I regret (and want to say to you) is that we didn't take as many photos while he developed as we could have done -and it's so great to look at such photos years later!
Best wishes from Angie

 

[Alice Sulcatia]

I think I can clear up a few things for you:

1. The UV tube needs to be near the heat lamp. They need heat for the UV to work. I don't know who told you to put it in the middle, but that is not correct.
2. Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. UV, or lack of UV does not cause pyramiding.

High humidity cannot be maintained in open topped enclosures any normal room, even in a humid climate. Placing the hygrometer directly on damp substrate will make it seem higher than it really is. The proof is in the new growth. You need a closed chamber to contain higher levels of humidity.

Also, what type of basking bulb, and what type of UV bulb are you using? The wrong type of bulb can cause pyramiding even in a humid closed chamber.

Your tortoise is mostly grown. You don't really have to worry about pyramiding anymore.

3. This is not a grass eating species. They should never be fed hay. While grass won't harm them, it's also not really what they need. Chopped fresh grass can be used to add fiber to grocery store greens, but better to just feed high fiber foods in the first place, which brings me too...

4. They need more than endive, radicchio, and pellets. What pellets are you feeding? They need broadleaf weeds and leaves. Natural foods are best. In your climate there are weeds, trees and flowers everywhere. The best food is free. Take some time to learn to ID the plants around you and make that the majority of the diet. Mulberry leaves, grape leaves, mallow, sow thistle, dandelions, rose of Sharon leaves and flowers, broadleaf plantain, narrow leaf plantain, hostas, clover... the list is endless.

5. Animals need what they need. They don't care about your finances or space constraints. Your tortoise needs space in a large safe enclosure. Either give the tortoise what it needs, or give it to someone who will. Giving this tortoise up, thankfully, does not seem like an option for you, so let's get to work figuring out how to give it what it needs within your current framework.

Outside is best. Everyone has cats, pests, and wild predators everywhere in this country. We all figure out how to make that work. If outside is not an option, then let's make inside work. How about this: Get a 4x8 sheet of ply wood, put 18 inch tall walls on it, legs, casters if you want to be able to move it, and stick it under a south facing window. In nice weather open the window and let the sun in. Be careful that there is always shade somewhere, and that the whole enclosure doesn't over heat. This should work in a large open table. It would not work in a small glass tank. Make the legs 30-36 inches tall, and store stuff underneath the big table. You could get fancy and make the area underneath a big giant rolling cabinet with doors and all.

Alternatively, a large closed chamber would solve all of your humidty and temperature problems. You can get a Smart Enclosure from Mark, or buy one from Animal Plastics and do-it-yourself. Either can be put on top of the same sort of giant rolling cabinet if you like.

6. If any of your friends or family are not supportive, stop talking to them about it. They don't care. I live this every day. My job, my hobbies, my sports, my career, my pastimes all involve animals. All day every day, nothing but animals. I wake up caring for animals, care for animals all day long, and then do all my animals chores at night before bed. There is no break. No rest. No vacation from it. I love it and wouldn't know how to live any other way. Some people don't get it. It's just not their thing to spend time, money and effort caring for animals. It brings me joy, happiness and peace. Nobody else has to understand it. Stop barking up the wrong tree looking for approval and help from people who don't understand your obsession. This forum is the right tree. We get it. We can easily see what this animal means to you, and while we might to be able to help you build an enclosure, we can offer help, understanding, and moral support. Some might call it "enabling". Okay. I'm fine with that label. There is a reason why so many of us come here and talk about tortoises all day every day. My family is not on here. It's not their thing. Other like-minded tortoise keepers are here, and that is who I am here to talk to. YOU! in other words. Now let's put our heads together and help you solve your space issues!

AMEN on point 6!!!

 

[Liljae9263]

1. Are the heat and lights contained inside the enclosure under the lid you made? If yes, then you are good on that part. If they are outside the enclosure on top, and outside of the lid, then its a problem.

2. Arcadia flood bulbs are just regular flood bulbs in fancy packaging. They are great, so you are good there. Shade dwelling UV tubes are for tortoise species that dwell in the shade. Your species dwells in the sun. It sounds like you found some bad sources for care info. I would normally recommend the 12% HO Arcadia tubes for a hermanni. The only reason to recommend a 6% tube would be if you are mounting it closer than the recommended 18-21 inches for the 12% bulbs. So how close are you mounting it? Without a meter we are all just guessing at how much UV is actually reaching your tortoise. If your tortoise is getting regular sunshine in an outdoor pen, then indoor UV isn't critical. If your tortoise is indoors all the time, then you need to know your UV levels and adjust accordingly. Sure the meters are expensive, but vet bills to diagnose and treat MBD are MUCH more expensive, not to mention the suffering of your tortoise and your mental anguish over something that could have been easily prevented if you had only known what your UV levels were. For an indoor only tortoise, $300 is cheap insurance and peace of mind. If you don't want to buy the meter, then figure out a way to get your tortoise outside for some access to sunshine on a regular basis. With an hour or two of access to sunshine a few times per week, the UV needs will be met. Make sure there is always deep shade available and that the tortoise doesn't over heat.

3. You can skip the hay entirely. Learn to ID your local plants and weeds, and feed your tortoise with those. It is better food for the tortoise and it is FREE! Grocery store greens should be an expensive last resort for when you just can't find anything better. This time of year you have weeds a plenty, grape and mulberry leaves, spineless opuntia pads, rose of Sharon leaves and flowers, kudzu leaves, hostas... the list is endless. If you stop buying grocery store greens, you'll save up enough to buy a meter in no time!

4. When scrounging for weeds look for sources that are unkempt, and look for signs of insect infestation. Look for spider webs, holes chewed in the leaves, ants nearby, bugs on the plants, etc... We each have to learn our local areas and where stuff might be sprayed. There are weed patches I used to scrounge from, and then one year I saw them spraying the area for weeds instead of weed whacking it. I stopped going there. Insecticides are expensive. Paying someone to apply them is expensive. People aren't go to just spray this stuff everywhere in the world. In a managed park or apartment complex with a groundskeeping staff, yes. On a wild hiking trail through woods, it's not likely.

Herbicidal sprays tend to be oily so that they stick to the leaves and kill the weeds. They also start to discolor the weed leaves within minutes in most cases, so you can easily tell if these have been recently applied.

Friends, family and neighbors usually know what has been done, or not done, in their own yards, so those tend to be safe sources too.

I've been scrounging tortoise food from all over the place for decades and I have never had any problems. I feed scrounged weeds and leaves to dozens of tortoises almost every day, and have done it this way since the 90s. It's better for them, and it's free.

5. Do whatever you can. Go big. You will never feel like you made any enclosure too big when it's done. The tortoise will use every square inch you can give it. Try the two story thing if you must, but be aware that sometimes they don't like it and won't use it. I've tried it, and I didn't like the results. That is why I don't recommend it to other people. If you do it and your tortoise uses both levels, then great. I find it best to make it large enough all on one level.

6. Oh good heavens no. I didn't suggest cutting your family off. I said "stop talking to them about it." "It" being your love of reptiles and fascination with tortoises. I said this because of what you said in the second paragraph of your first post in this thread about how they shot down your ideas and they don't understand his needs. I have lots of hobbies and interests. I've learned to save the conversation and enthusiasm about these things for the other people who share the enthusiasm for the same things. I talk about my falconry with other falconers. I talk about tortoises with my tortoise friends. Snakes with other snake keepers, parrots with parrot people, etc... The snake people don't want to hear about my latest parrot training accomplishment. They will politely listen for a minute, but even a moron like me can see them squirming and looking for a way to escape their captivity... The loved ones you mentioned in that paragraph clearly don't get it and aren't into it, so my suggestion was to stop looking to them for validation and support in THIS tortoise matter. Find your tortoise support and validation with other tortoise addicts. Like all of us here on this forum. Definitely keep your friends, family and loved ones around and close for all other aspects of your life. Just realize they don't have the interest in or understanding of tortoise care that you do.

Reaserch. Its good. Its necessary. It can be helpful, but... Almost everything you find for tortoises will be bad care info. Vets, FB, YT, pet stores, etc... Most of the info coming from seemingly credible sources like these is old, wrong info. This forum is the only place I know of giving out the correct care info, and there are so many people here that even here we disagree on some points. Its hard to know who to listen too, but when someone tells you to put the UV over the middle instead of near the heat lamp, or use a shade dwelling bulb over a sun loving species, then something is amiss. If the UV tube has to be very close to the tortoise due to enclosure construction or something, then a shade dweller bulb might actually be good advice, but not in general for your species. The good news is that you are here. We are all eager to help you succeed. When someone suggests a shade dweller bulb for a hermanni, you can ask us why they would do that, and we can help you figure out what is going on, and what the best course of action might be. We've got some smart and very experienced people here in this wonderful group. You are formally invited, in writing now, to take advantage of the vast experience and willingness to help of the membership here.

1. The lights r inside the enclosure. I made sure we could set it up that way bc ik on top of a lid decreases the effectiveness of the lamps. And I double checked the UVB lamp and I was wrong, I have the PROT5 24w desert Arcadia bulb. I just bought another bulb for it so I hope it’s right . At my local pet stores I only really have access to that one or the shade dweller and I remember now reading that the shade dweller is for… well shade dwellers and wouldn’t be warm enough for him. (At the same time I got Franklin I was doing research on frogs which I think used the shade dweller so I got them mixed up often :/) so I got the desert one! He is a completely inside tort and I don’t think I have a way to get him outside time rn. As I said b4 my patio is unsafe with the neighbors kids constantly going into it and throwing objects in it AND it’s insanely small and all concrete. I will look into tho! If I can somehow find a way to set up a safe outdoor enclosure I will, even if it’s just for an hour or 2 of sun time every now and then and I will sit out there with him!

2. I will look into plant identification and maybe see if I can ask some friends and family to gather weeds from their yard for Frankie. Ik my folks had a bunch of mulberry plants in their backyard when I still lived with them. My sister also gardens and has a HUGE yard so she might be willing to get me something too!

3. I think I really do need to make a 2 story enclosure bc I just don’t have the room. I am however going to see how much space I can actually make available for him when I move him into my bedroom. I plan to remove as much unnecessary furniture from the room so I can fit him in and make it cozy for us both. Hopefully one day in the future I can get a two bed apartment and he can have his own room (that was my original goal when moving out but MAN is that expensive.) Franklin REALLY loves to climb and explore so I’m hoping with a big ramp added he will be V interested haha.

3. Ok sorry! I thought I was misreading ur comment! Yea I have troubling reading social cues so I can’t tell when they aren’t interested in hearing about tortoise care sometimes and the same applies online, being able to read tones and in between the lines, etc. That’s my bad! But they do love me and Franklin so they’re willing to listen to how THEY can help me, like building something with specific requirements for his care, and follow thro. And I love them for that. Like I said I’m designing something for Frankie now with a family friend and all this info I’m passing along in hopes we can make something really nice for him! and I always appreciate the help that is given to me on this forum. Everyone is always so kind. I just get a little paranoid at times and beat myself up a little too much. But I have learned A LOT on here and wouldn’t have been able to get this far without the help I received on here. I’m honestly not sure if I would still have Frankie since I was so scared of messing up in the past and some kind souls on here reassured me I was doing good by him by just caring so much for him and I can ALWAYS make changes to make it better for him. I am NEVER truly stuck where I am. Anyways, I’m looking for a bright future for us both!

 

[Tom]

1. The lights r inside the enclosure. I made sure we could set it up that way bc ik on top of a lid decreases the effectiveness of the lamps. And I double checked the UVB lamp and I was wrong, I have the PROT5 24w desert Arcadia bulb. I just bought another bulb for it so I hope it’s right . At my local pet stores I only really have access to that one or the shade dweller and I remember now reading that the shade dweller is for… well shade dwellers and wouldn’t be warm enough for him. (At the same time I got Franklin I was doing research on frogs which I think used the shade dweller so I got them mixed up often :/) so I got the desert one! He is a completely inside tort and I don’t think I have a way to get him outside time rn. As I said b4 my patio is unsafe with the neighbors kids constantly going into it and throwing objects in it AND it’s insanely small and all concrete. I will look into tho! If I can somehow find a way to set up a safe outdoor enclosure I will, even if it’s just for an hour or 2 of sun time every now and then and I will sit out there with him!

2. I will look into plant identification and maybe see if I can ask some friends and family to gather weeds from their yard for Frankie. Ik my folks had a bunch of mulberry plants in their backyard when I still lived with them. My sister also gardens and has a HUGE yard so she might be willing to get me something too!

3. I think I really do need to make a 2 story enclosure bc I just don’t have the room. I am however going to see how much space I can actually make available for him when I move him into my bedroom. I plan to remove as much unnecessary furniture from the room so I can fit him in and make it cozy for us both. Hopefully one day in the future I can get a two bed apartment and he can have his own room (that was my original goal when moving out but MAN is that expensive.) Franklin REALLY loves to climb and explore so I’m hoping with a big ramp added he will be V interested haha.

3. Ok sorry! I thought I was misreading ur comment! Yea I have troubling reading social cues so I can’t tell when they aren’t interested in hearing about tortoise care sometimes and the same applies online, being able to read tones and in between the lines, etc. That’s my bad! But they do love me and Franklin so they’re willing to listen to how THEY can help me, like building something with specific requirements for his care, and follow thro. And I love them for that. Like I said I’m designing something for Frankie now with a family friend and all this info I’m passing along in hopes we can make something really nice for him! and I always appreciate the help that is given to me on this forum. Everyone is always so kind. I just get a little paranoid at times and beat myself up a little too much. But I have learned A LOT on here and wouldn’t have been able to get this far without the help I received on here. I’m honestly not sure if I would still have Frankie since I was so scared of messing up in the past and some kind souls on here reassured me I was doing good by him by just caring so much for him and I can ALWAYS make changes to make it better for him. I am NEVER truly stuck where I am. Anyways, I’m looking for a bright future for us both!

Good news on the bulb! How many inches above his shell is the light mounted? And how many hours a day is that particular bulb on? It should be somewhere around 18-20 inches, and that bulb should be on its own timer just for a few hours mid day. Using the bulb for three hours a day, will make it last a lot longer than using it for 12 hours a day. They only need about 15 minutes of exposure to get the job done. Running it for a few hours mid day simulates the UV levels outside. There is no UV in the early morning sun or late afternoon. It starts at zero, begins to climb in the morning, peaks mid day, and slowly trails back to zero by evening. This is why you need LED lighting to make it look right and "sunny" all day, along with the heat lamp.