Do marginateds grow... differently?

[Fangorn]

After much searching, I was able to find a juvenile (~three years old) marginated from a breeder. We had several back or forth conversations and I received photos and picked out the one I wanted. In the last picture I received, the day of shipping, it was at a different angle and I noticed the shell looked like it had pyramiding. I asked him about this and he said "In the species I wouldn't call it pyramiding, this is just how they grow. These have been grown outside on natural sunlight on all kinds of weeds." and that he's raised dozens of them. I tried to do some research about different growth patterns in MTs but couldn't find any info.

The tortoise arrived today and the shell shape looks much more pyramidy in person (in tortoise?). What's done is done and I'm not going to be returning the tortoise either way but I'm curious if it is true that they grow differently than other Testudos or if this guy was really just missing something essential in its previous life. It otherwise seems healthy/active/curious.

 

[Tom]

I'm sorry to tell you that this tortoise is not only heavily pyramided, it also had MBD. It was raised and grown completely incorrectly.

I wish you had posted pics before you made the purchase. We would have told you to pass on this one. You really ought to share the name of the breeder/seller so that others don't make the same mistake.

You really should return this tortoise, and if the seller won't take it back, I'd dispute the charges. This tortoise is in bad shape. If it looks this bad on the outside, there is no telling what is going on inside. You are likely to rack up huge vet bills, and this tortoise may suffer a shortened lifespan.

 

[zovick]

After much searching, I was able to find a juvenile (~three years old) marginated from a breeder. We had several back or forth conversations and I received photos and picked out the one I wanted. In the last picture I received, the day of shipping, it was at a different angle and I noticed the shell looked like it had pyramiding. I asked him about this and he said "In the species I wouldn't call it pyramiding, this is just how they grow. These have been grown outside on natural sunlight on all kinds of weeds." and that he's raised dozens of them. I tried to do some research about different growth patterns in MTs but couldn't find any info.

The tortoise arrived today and the shell shape looks much more pyramidy in person (in tortoise?). What's done is done and I'm not going to be returning the tortoise either way but I'm curious if it is true that they grow differently than other Testudos or if this guy was really just missing something essential in its previous life. It otherwise seems healthy/active/curious.

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I agree completely with Tom. No tortoise normally grows like the one in your photos. The seller saw you coming and sold you an extremely poor example of the species.

Sorry this happened to you. If you can possible get your $$ back, do so, and then buy one from a reptuable breeder instead.

Who sold you this tortoise?

 

[Fangorn]

Uugh. I'm devastated. I had been waiting for this for so long. I was initially going to get a hatching and then I panicked, worried about the possibility of doing something wrong in its rearing. All the pictures I received were from the top, such as in this video I just took, where I thought the shadows was just the coloring of the dark scutes.

https://imgur.com/a/MmURyYx

I feel like a rube.

I'm going to wait to mention the breeder until I calm down/get a response from them.

 

[Fangorn]

Can ya'll tell me what you see that looks like MBD so I can highlight it in my letter? I am the worst person at confrontation ever.

 

[Fangorn]

I'm wondering if maybe it was just fed too much? It's 354g which seems to be quite high for a three year old. If it lived outside its whole life, how could it get MBD?

 

[zovick]

I'm wondering if maybe it was just fed too much? It's 354g which seems to be quite high for a three year old. If it lived outside its whole life, how could it get MBD?

Maybe the seller was being dishonest? The flattened backline at the mid-point of the shell is a sure sign of MBD. A tortoise with MBD looks in profile as though someone has stepped on its back and depressed the spine.

Hopefully you can get restitution. After that is decided, please name this person so others can avoid being taken.

 

[Fangorn]

He told me to send it back if I'm that unhappy so that's what I'm going to do. Pretty heartbroken.

 

[Tom]

I'm wondering if maybe it was just fed too much? It's 354g which seems to be quite high for a three year old. If it lived outside its whole life, how could it get MBD?

354 is small for for three years old.

MBD occurs when there is not enough calcium available for bone growth and bodily maintenance. If the seller is telling the truth and this tortoise was outside its whole life, then the most likely explanation would be a calcium deficient diet. They can't use calcium without D3 and D3 is made using UVB. If they have lots of UVB and enough D3 is being made, but there is not enough calcium present to assimilate, then the D3 is irrelevant.

To me, this looks like the typical example of a dry raised, indoor only, poorly fed tortoise. Its very sad.

 

[Alice Sulcatia]

He told me to send it back if I'm that unhappy so that's what I'm going to do. Pretty heartbroken.

I am so sorry you are going through this, and for the little guy ... sending hugs and good juju your way.

 

[Sarah2020]

Sorry for this traumer. On this forum we have breeders and they are in this discussion amongst others. I would send back and hopefully you get a refund and then ask on here if anyone has hatchlings or yearlings of the breed you want. Annually 1000d of torts get breed and their onward care, level of life quality and expectation is down to the owners. On this forum we see positives and also such sad situations that are truly devastating. Once you get your new tort you can ask for help and guidance from the forum. Your aiming for a good roomy set up with heat and uvb light. Good nourishing food, good hydration regular warm soaks and calcium added to the diet to help with beak, bone, shell and claw quality. The pyramids effect the spine direction, cause torts to walk badly and be in pain along with weak bone density all because the basic quality of life and calcium are missing. Long answer but hope you get what your looking for.