Irregular eating Habits

[John J]

My two juvenile desert tortoises have recently stopped eating as much do to I think a change made to their diet where more variety was introduced. I previously had them on half natural and half produce diet, a mix of kapidolo farm toppers like echinacea, mulberry leaf, mallow, dandelion, nettle etc and handpicked weeds grasses and flowers with romaine, cactus, carrot, occasional cucumber etc. Once I introduced more endive and escarole in their diet instead of the romaine they started to eat less as if they were distrusting of the food source. They do have variety, with vitamin powders and calcium powders and cuttle bones too, and they love the Mazuri LS pellets given from time to time, but it is clear they still have some vitamin deficiency more so one tortoise over the other, as "she" seems to try and eat a lot of sticks and stone and everything weird(I don't let her, because some things are choking hazards). I read a bit and have gotten Miner-All as suggested for this issue but I wanted to ask, is this normal behavior? Should I just continue to let them notbeat what they don't want to eat but still offer it to force them to adjust to new foods? Or perhaps something I'm doing is wrong? I'm starting to worry about parasitic loads or other health factors that might affect there food intake. The "male" even though picky with the prepared foods now which was not like him before, he still grazes a TON. But with the decrease in the prepared food I'm afraid they are not getting proper vitamin intake do to lack of variety.

 

[Tom]

First: Are they housed separately?

If the tortoise is grazing naturally, and with your huge variety of good stuff, you really don't need and supplementation. A tiny pinch of calcium now and then certainly won't hurt anything, but if they are eating a variety of weeds and all of those supplementary foods too, they are getting plenty of nutrition.

Where are you in SoCal? The excessive heat slows down their appetite too. Or if you are near the coast, the cold clammy weather can slow them down.

 

[John J]

First: Are they housed separately?

If the tortoise is grazing naturally, and with your huge variety of good stuff, you really don't need and supplementation. A tiny pinch of calcium now and then certainly won't hurt anything, but if they are eating a variety of weeds and all of those supplementary foods too, they are getting plenty of nutrition.

Where are you in SoCal? The excessive heat slows down their appetite too. Or if you are near the coast, the cold clammy weather can slow them down.

I'm In los Angeles county in Upland, yes they are houses seperatly, two 4x8 indoor fully enclosed enclosures. The behavior began right after I introduced endive and escarole. It has been very hot lately. They are defecating every day still and the days they haven't been eating much I offer two pellets each just in case

 

[John J]

First: Are they housed separately?

If the tortoise is grazing naturally, and with your huge variety of good stuff, you really don't need and supplementation. A tiny pinch of calcium now and then certainly won't hurt anything, but if they are eating a variety of weeds and all of those supplementary foods too, they are getting plenty of nutrition.

Where are you in SoCal? The excessive heat slows down their appetite too. Or if you are near the coast, the cold clammy weather can slow them down.

When they are outside grazing they are in the same yard, so they can see each other from time to time but I have not seen this behavior previously and they have always been out like that, should I be taking them out at different times?

 

[Tom]

I'm In los Angeles county in Upland, yes they are houses seperatly, two 4x8 indoor fully enclosed enclosures. The behavior began right after I introduced endive and escarole. It has been very hot lately. They are defecating every day still and the days they haven't been eating much I offer two pellets each just in case

Upland has great tortoise weather for DTs! The heat shouldn't matter indoors.

I'm trying to see a reason for the reduced appetite. How often do you soak them? What sort of heating, lighting and UV are you using indoors? What are your temperatures indoors? What substrate are you using?

When they are outside grazing they are in the same yard, so they can see each other from time to time but I have not seen this behavior previously and they have always been out like that, should I be taking them out at different times?

Outside they should each have a secure enclosure. Letting them roam loose will eventually end up with one or both of them lost. Everyone loses them, and everyone was sure they were supervising and watching closely. No one would do it if they thought the were going to lose their beloved tortoise. They learn after it happens.

I would not let them out together. The pair thing applies.

 

[John J]

Upland has great tortoise weather for DTs! The heat shouldn't matter indoors.

I'm trying to see a reason for the reduced appetite. How often do you soak them? What sort of heating, lighting and UV are you using indoors? What are your temperatures indoors? What substrate are you using?

Outside they should each have a secure enclosure. Letting them roam loose will eventually end up with one or both of them lost. Everyone loses them, and everyone was sure they were supervising and watching closely. No one would do it if they thought the were going to lose their beloved tortoise. They learn after it happens.

I would not let them out together. The pair thing applies.

Oh no! That would break my heart if they got lost!! I soak them twice a day for a bit less than 10 minutes to about 10 minutes at a time, heating is from a flood incandescent bulb placed to allow 95-100 degrees at tortoise shell height, t5 Arcadia 12% UV tubes, LED smart bulbs and led strip lighting, temperatures indoor inside enclosure ilon the hot side is 91 and on the cooler end 85 during the day. Night time has been a bit warmer than usual this past week and a half though due to the recent heat wave. Pure Coco coir substrate that is kept partly moist and packed down.

 

[COmtnLady]

Not meaning to butt in, Tom's giving great advice, but will anyhow -

A longer soak is better. Tortoises do everything s-l-o-w-l-y, and ten minutes barely gives them time to realize they're supposed to be soaking. Keep them in nice lukewarm water (95f-ish) for at least a half an hour. Longer than that is better. The water ensures good hydration. There is almost no such thing as too much soaking.

The water should only come up to where their top and bottom shells come together, so it will cool off quickly. Keep an eye on it and keep it warm. The warmth is important; it gets their internal organs working better, encourage blood flow, and loosens up their muscles. Its good for them.

Plus, many tortoises will defecate and urinate in the water, and that gives you great feedback concerning their health. You can tell a lot about how well they are processing their food and how they are feeling by how firm and what color the poop is. Its a little indelicate at first, but it really is good feedback. I tend to leave my tortoise in her soak until she poops (unless she poops really soon upon being put into the water, in which case I still leave her for at least 45 minutes - after changing to fresh water when it gets fouled).

What are you soaking them in? A plastic tub or bucket with vertical sides that they can't climb out of, is best. Russians frequently act like you dropped them into acid, but just consider the scrabbling around good exercise for them. They aren't in any danger because you are watching them closely, and the exercise helps massage their internal organs a bit, too.





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[Tom]

Oh no! That would break my heart if they got lost!! I soak them twice a day for a bit less than 10 minutes to about 10 minutes at a time, heating is from a flood incandescent bulb placed to allow 95-100 degrees at tortoise shell height, t5 Arcadia 12% UV tubes, LED smart bulbs and led strip lighting, temperatures indoor inside enclosure ilon the hot side is 91 and on the cooler end 85 during the day. Night time has been a bit warmer than usual this past week and a half though due to the recent heat wave. Pure Coco coir substrate that is kept partly moist and packed down.

All of this sounds ideal. Longer soaks are better, as the mountain lady pointed out, but with two soaks a day, dehydration, constipation, and bladder stones can reasonably be ruled out.

As an experiment, try switching back to the original diet with half romaine, before you added in the new stuff. If they go back to eating more, then you have your answer. Romaine isn't bad for them if you are adding in the dried leaf options and also feeding half weeds or other "natural" foods.

 

[John J]

Not meaning to butt in, Tom's giving great advice, but will anyhow -

A longer soak is better. Tortoises do everything s-l-o-w-l-y, and ten minutes barely gives them time to realize they're supposed to be soaking. Keep them in nice lukewarm water (95f-ish) for at least a half an hour. Longer than that is better. The water ensures good hydration. There is almost no such thing as too much soaking.

The water should only come up to where their top and bottom shells come together, so it will cool off quickly. Keep an eye on it and keep it warm. The warmth is important; it gets their internal organs working better, encourage blood flow, and loosens up their muscles. Its good for them.

Plus, many tortoises will defecate and urinate in the water, and that gives you great feedback concerning their health. You can tell a lot about how well they are processing their food and how they are feeling by how firm and what color the poop is. Its a little indelicate at first, but it really is good feedback. I tend to leave my tortoise in her soak until she poops (unless she poops really soon upon being put into the water, in which case I still leave her for at least 45 minutes - after changing to fresh water when it gets fouled).

What are you soaking them in? A plastic tub or bucket with vertical sides that they can't climb out of, is best. Russians frequently act like you dropped them into acid, but just consider the scrabbling around good exercise for them. They aren't in any danger because you are watching them closely, and the exercise helps massage their internal organs a bit, too.





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Thank you very much for your feedback as well! With the two soaks they get close to 20 minutes, I guess I do that because they seem to be pacing around and wanting out the entire time, but I guess I just have to back off and let them walk in their. I soak them in small plastic tubs where there is some room to walk but maybe a bigger tub will help ease up their stress a little, do you have any advice for getting them to relax in their or just stick me in watch em and let em run lol? I will start the longer soaks today, sometimes I can be overly sensitive with them and want to take them out when they really want out but I hear you and I do need to force them stay in their longer. I'll begin that today. Hopefully the extra hydration boosts their appetite. Maybe the heat wave with mild soaks is enough to make them slow down their appetites. We'll see, thank you!

 

[John J]

All of this sounds ideal. Longer soaks are better, as the mountain lady pointed out, but with two soaks a day, dehydration, constipation, and bladder stones can reasonably be ruled out.

As an experiment, try switching back to the original diet with half romaine, before you added in the new stuff. If they go back to eating more, then you have your answer. Romaine isn't bad for them if you are adding in the dried leaf options and also feeding half weeds or other "natural" foods.

That's a great idea I'll do that. Okay I added the endive and escarole to get away from romaine because I didn't want them favoring that(which they do) because of it's low nutrient load. I started thinking this way after they started eating small stone dirt and sticks(I don't let them but I catch them trying) and the behavior has only increased, especially in the "female". That's all she seems to want to eat sometimes, nibbles on some greens and goes for the dirt. But I have that Miner-All coming. She even tried to eat a worm or two.

 

[Tom]

Thank you very much for your feedback as well! With the two soaks they get close to 20 minutes, I guess I do that because they seem to be pacing around and wanting out the entire time, but I guess I just have to back off and let them walk in their. I soak them in small plastic tubs where there is some room to walk but maybe a bigger tub will help ease up their stress a little, do you have any advice for getting them to relax in their or just stick me in watch em and let em run lol? I will start the longer soaks today, sometimes I can be overly sensitive with them and want to take them out when they really want out but I hear you and I do need to force them stay in their longer. I'll begin that today. Hopefully the extra hydration boosts their appetite. Maybe the heat wave with mild soaks is enough to make them slow down their appetites. We'll see, thank you!

They aren't stressed. They are just marching. Much like a horse, tortoises rely on locomotion to keep the GI tract moving along. Think of the soaks like a hot walker for horses. Years ago @Yvonne G used the phrase "tortoise treadmill". It really does fit. While soaking for 45 minutes, your tortoise is getting its daily workout, and getting hydrated, and keeping the bowels healthy and moving, and voiding any built up urates which will prevent bladder stone formation. It's a win win win all around. Sitting still in the warm soaking water is actually less beneficial than when they are in there trudging around.