4 month old Hermann's sleeping more, eating less, and shell is soft

[colinray2000]

My baby Hermann's, Henry, has been less active as of recently. Activity levels have declined over the past 2 weeks. He will move spots a couple inches and then goes right back to bed.
He hasn't been eating as much as of recent as well. He gets new food and water daily and hasn't even been eating when I offer him Easter cactus.
Lastly his shell is soft. I understand that a tortoises shell hardens as it matures. It is soft but isn't malleable or anything. No secretions or discolorations.

Enclosure: He is currently in a 2ft by 4ft open top tortoise table with 2 separate lamps. his substrate consists of 70% coco fiber substrate, 20% sand, and 10% coco husk. The substrate is ~3 inches deep. I know sand typically isn't advised for reptiles as it can cause impaction but its my understanding that it is save in low quantities.
Heat: One is a zoomed 100w Mercury Vapor bulb and the other is a 100w zilla day white light. These lamps are elevated to where the temperature under the zilla is ~100F and ~94 under the zoomed. The UV content is within appropriate limits as i have tested it at his shell height with a UV card. As the enclosure is larger the temperature varies based on location. The lowest temp recorded via temp gun is 72F during the day. At night the lamps are turned off and the ambient temp of the room is 70F.
Diet: The staples of his diet are endive and escarole. I will also add turnip greens, red lettuce, swiss chard, radicchio, mustard greens, spring mix (no spinach), and water cress. I typically add 2 of the items from my second list to the endive and escarole. Henry receives calcium every other day sprinkled on top of his salad.

Please advise me on what can be done to improve his situation.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
Henry is very cute! I wish him to get well soon.

1. Have you seen him using the water dish? Do you soak him, how often and how long?
2. What about poo? Was it firm or gooey? Does his pass urates?
3. What was UV level on the card when you measured it? How long this lamp is in use? What distance from substrate?
4. How old is Henry? Maybe you have a track of his weight?

 

[colinray2000]

Hello!
Henry is very cute! I wish him to get well soon.

1. Have you seen him using the water dish? Do you soak him, how often and how long?
2. What about poo? Was it firm or gooey? Does his pass urates?
3. What was UV level on the card when you measured it? How long this lamp is in use? What distance from substrate?
4. How old is Henry? Maybe you have a track of his weight?

I don't see Henry using his dish very often. If I don't see him use it I put him in the dish for about 10 minutes. I'm going to begin doing daily soaks and adding Carrot puree in order to get him some nutrients.
I am unsure about his poop. I haven't been able to find any new excrement so I'm unsure if he has been pooping at all.
The uv is measure with a card that changes color when the uv is within acceptable range for reptiles. Reptisun uv sensor. Lamps are about 18 inches high. The the mvb is a little over a month old and the arcadia is 3 weeks old.
Henry is 4 months. I can get his weight now and continue to track.

 

[Raquel1978]

The problem with the open top enclosures is all the heat is escaping out I had the same problem with mine.
It was easily corrected tho I bought a small little green house cover to pop over it to keep it enclosed and that also helped with keeping the humidity up.
You have a similar set up to how I started but with a few little changes my little Herman's improved.

 

[zovick]

My baby Hermann's, Henry, has been less active as of recently. Activity levels have declined over the past 2 weeks. He will move spots a couple inches and then goes right back to bed.
He hasn't been eating as much as of recent as well. He gets new food and water daily and hasn't even been eating when I offer him Easter cactus.
Lastly his shell is soft. I understand that a tortoises shell hardens as it matures. It is soft but isn't malleable or anything. No secretions or discolorations.

Enclosure: He is currently in a 2ft by 4ft open top tortoise table with 2 separate lamps. his substrate consists of 70% coco fiber substrate, 20% sand, and 10% coco husk. The substrate is ~3 inches deep. I know sand typically isn't advised for reptiles as it can cause impaction but its my understanding that it is save in low quantities.
Heat: One is a zoomed 100w Mercury Vapor bulb and the other is a 100w zilla day white light. These lamps are elevated to where the temperature under the zilla is ~100F and ~94 under the zoomed. The UV content is within appropriate limits as i have tested it at his shell height with a UV card. As the enclosure is larger the temperature varies based on location. The lowest temp recorded via temp gun is 72F during the day. At night the lamps are turned off and the ambient temp of the room is 70F.
Diet: The staples of his diet are endive and escarole. I will also add turnip greens, red lettuce, swiss chard, radicchio, mustard greens, spring mix (no spinach), and water cress. I typically add 2 of the items from my second list to the endive and escarole. Henry receives calcium every other day sprinkled on top of his salad.

Please advise me on what can be done to improve his situation.

Mercury Vapor bulbs (MVB's) are not recommended for tortoises. I would replace it with a linear tube fluorescent for UV such as a Reptisun T5 10.0 or a comparable Arcadia tube fluorescent bulb.

Also the open top table is not ideal as mentioned above by Raquel1978.

Good luck.

 

[EppsDynasty]

@colinray2000 ..... You have a fragile life in your hands and his life depends on you being able to make the appropriate changes. If you do not do this he will continue to decline, torts get sick slow and DIE slow. Your tort has most likely been feeling bad for weeks, you are just now able to notice it, they hide it very well. You now have to make a choice 1. Make the necessary changes soon. or 2. Watch him suffer until you try and find him a new home, in hopes he doesn't die.
This may sound harsh but that is what death is Harsh. We are ALL here to help him you are just the one that needs to do it. Keep us posted and we will all do our best to help.

 

[colinray2000]

@colinray2000 ..... You have a fragile life in your hands and his life depends on you being able to make the appropriate changes. If you do not do this he will continue to decline, torts get sick slow and DIE slow. Your tort has most likely been feeling bad for weeks, you are just now able to notice it, they hide it very well. You now have to make a choice 1. Make the necessary changes soon. or 2. Watch him suffer until you try and find him a new home, in hopes he doesn't die.
This may sound harsh but that is what death is Harsh. We are ALL here to help him you are just the one that needs to do it. Keep us posted and we will all do our best to help.

So, what I'm hearing is that I need to switch to a linear UVB bulb and add a greenhouse cover over my table?

 

[EppsDynasty]

So, what I'm hearing is that I need to switch to a linear UVB bulb and add a greenhouse cover over my table?

Yes. You will continue to measure and monitor until you can figure out what works for you. Every enclosure acts differently so you just have to "Fine Tune" yours. Usually when the correct changes are made the tort responds with more activity and eating. Best of Luck to ya.

 

[Maggie3fan]

So, what I'm hearing is that I need to switch to a linear UVB bulb and add a greenhouse cover over my table?

Yes, look at Amazon for a greenhouse...here's mine I put the greennhouse over a tort table for Layla the Redfoot

 

[colinray2000]

Yes, look at Amazon for a greenhouse...here's mine I put the greennhouse over a tort table for Layla the RedfootView attachment 368561

Thank you for your advice! I have ordered the greenhouse top and will be getting a linear bulb installed by the end of the day. I will be changing my MVB for a bulb similar to my Arcadia. I also have a vet visit scheduled to get a wellness check on Henry.

 

[EppsDynasty]

Thank you for your advice! I have ordered the greenhouse top and will be getting a linear bulb installed by the end of the day. I will be changing my MVB for a bulb similar to my Arcadia. I also have a vet visit scheduled to get a wellness check on Henry.

Right on ... A responsible tort owner doing what has to be done. Your little guys is going to be ok with you taking care of the needs instead of focusing on the wants. Again Right On.

 

[colinray2000]

Right on ... A responsible tort owner doing what has to be done. Your little guys is going to be ok with you taking care of the needs instead of focusing on the wants. Again Right On.

Thank you, I'm just really worried for him.

I'm hoping that with my planned new set up, the vet visit, and the Carrot puree water soaks I will see improvement in his appetite/activity levels. I know the shell is a concern but I am still unsure if it's because he is a baby or due to calcium issues. Thank you all for the advice and I will keep you all updated in the coming days.

 

[EppsDynasty]

Thank you, I'm just really worried for him.

I'm hoping that with my planned new set up, the vet visit, and the Carrot puree water soaks I will see improvement in his appetite/activity levels. I know the shell is a concern but I am still unsure if it's because he is a baby or due to calcium issues. Thank you all for the advice and I will keep you all updated in the coming days.

Not sure about any issue with the shell I am no expert, but I don't see anything wrong. Torts body temps being to cold will make them act as you have mentioned.
Carrot soaks are for when their eyes are stuck shut, this is usually a Vitamin A deficiency, Carrots are high in Vitamin A. I'm not sure that's your issue.

 

[Raquel1978]

Thank you, I'm just really worried for him.

I'm hoping that with my planned new set up, the vet visit, and the Carrot puree water soaks I will see improvement in his appetite/activity levels. I know the shell is a concern but I am still unsure if it's because he is a baby or due to calcium issues. Thank you all for the advice and I will keep you all updated in the coming days.

My little ones shell was very slightly soft but was told that's normal in babies mine has hardened as she's gotten bigger.
So unless it is extremely soft I think it's normal.
Babies in general sleep alot and their are days when my little one is more sleepy I think that's just normal.
I only sprinkle calcium about once a week as I've also got cuttle fish which she loves nibbling on and helps with calcium and her beak also.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I don't see Henry using his dish very often. If I don't see him use it I put him in the dish for about 10 minutes. I'm going to begin doing daily soaks and adding Carrot puree in order to get him some nutrients.
I am unsure about his poop. I haven't been able to find any new excrement so I'm unsure if he has been pooping at all.
The uv is measure with a card that changes color when the uv is within acceptable range for reptiles. Reptisun uv sensor. Lamps are about 18 inches high. The the mvb is a little over a month old and the arcadia is 3 weeks old.
Henry is 4 months. I can get his weight now and continue to track.

Ok, I get it.
Daily soaks (20-30 minutes), will help, hopefully, if he is dehydrated or has mild constipation (perhaps, the latter). Carrot puree might perk him up a little bit, but as mentioned above it's for the more severe cases.

With UVB lamp - I've been asking to check if lights were too harsh for him. Just in case, UV test cards are very inaccurate (better than nothing, but you can't fully trust them). If you are going to replace MVB lamp with a T5 UVB lamp (it's a long straight tube, not coiled), place the new lamp close to the basking bulb so the UVB, visible light and heat sources are above the same area. You may try to switch off MVB bulb and check if it influence his activity.

When going to the vet, try to do a fecal test (if Henry will cooperate on that) and, please, avoid any vitamin shots. Sometimes vets who are not familiar with tortoises offer vitamin A injections (because that works for turtles) - refuse.

And, yes, please keep us updated.

 

[colinray2000]

Ok small update, I soaked him and afterward he was a little bit more active. After putting him back into the table I left to go purchase the new lights and when I got home he had burrowed a little! He hadn't done this in a little while so I was happy to see him somewhat active.

I have installed the new arcadia pro t5 light system with a 12% uv bulb and a zoomed 100w basking light.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Good news!
Arcadia Desert should be around 16-18 inches over substrate (looks like it's a bit lower on the picture). You may put it on timer to run 4 hours around midday - this will provide enough, but not too much UVB and the lamp will last longer.
Also, you may replace water bowl with a terracotta saucer, large enough to get into. So he may use it for self-soaking and drinking. I can't tell from photos if the one you have is large enough.