A few general questions

[kelarned]

After 15 years of owning snakes and lizards, have decided to switch to torts. I have finally found myself in the right place to take on this long term commitment.

I have spent many hrs reading posts and care sheets and anything else I can get my hands on. I have 2 hatchling leos (9-06-2010) and I have several general questions that I would love some advice on.

There are in a temporary enclosure with a heat lamp and a UV tube. I have successfully created a temp gradient of 85-95 in the hot side to 80ish on the low.

First--I am feeding them several different types of greens that I have seen on the lists that people have posted.

Spring Mix--no spinach or chard
Mustard greens
turnip greens
Endive
small amounts of dandelions
Rabe-Rabini

I make a big chopped of bowl of this and then feed them the mixed salad each day. I have also been giving them thinly sliced prickly pear pads every other day or so.

Once a day I sprinkle timothy hay (finely chopped up to almost a powder in the blender).

That being said, my question is about Calcium vs. Calcium w/ D3. Which one is best? How often? I work during the day, so they currently don't get too much real sun, but they have the UV bulb about 12-15 inches from them.

Second--Substrate and Humidity

I have read "The end to pyramiding," and am going to try to keep my humidity up in their enclosure, but I'm just not sure what type of substrate will best help me accomplish this.

I currently have fine coco coir in their enclosure. I am able to spray it down a couple times a day to keep the humidity up, but it gets everywhere. On their food, in their water and all over bodies. I'm sure that torts get dirty in the wild, I guess that I just want to make sure that they don't become impacted.

Any thoughts? Please...I just want to do whats best for the Leos.

 

[Kristina]

1.) Diet sounds great. Since your tortoises are receiving UV lighting, I would NOT use a calcium supplement with D3. Pure calcium carbonate powder or powdered cuttlebone (you can scrape it with a knife or powder it in a blender/food processor) would be fine.

2.) Personally, I use the coconut coir. I haven't ever had any impaction problems. Do you feed your tortoises in a dish or on a piece of slate? I personally use slate or a terra cotta dish.

If you do not like the coco coir, I would look for some fine grade orchid bark, like Yvonne uses and recommends. It will be much smaller pieces than cypress mulch, but not get tracked around as much.

Another thing - if you set up a humid hide, and mist directly on the carapace 3-4 times daily, it is not necessary to keep the conditions in the enclosure over all soaking wet all the time. Some of that depends on where you live - Tom lives where it is very hot and dry all the time, so he keeps his baby enclosures wetter than someone like me would have to (I am from Michigan.)

Oh, and.... Pictures??? Welcome to the forum

 

[kelarned]

Thank you

I am actually a Michigan native living in California. Thank you for your insight.

Their temporary enclosure doesn't have space for a humid hide box, but I am in the process of converting my kids old train table into a tort table, which will include one.

I will switch to the Ca powder. I believe I read on one of the threads that Ca is water soluble and so they can pass whatever they do not use. Would you suggest using the powder everyday or every other?

Thanks again, I just want to raise them properly from the start.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Kelarned:

Welcome to the forum!!

I'm not sure about the conditions where leopards actually live, but my guess is that its probably packed down dirt, like what you have outside at your house. Wild tortoises get dirty when they dig in the dirt, but just walking around doesn't cause their "floor" to adhere to them. Also, wild tortoises bite pieces of food off of a stem or plant...they don't pick up wet food off the ground, so generally speaking, they don't get dirt on what they're eating.

That's why I like orchid bark (the fine grade) or cypress mulch. Both of these products are actual pieces of bark, not finely ground husks. You might get a tiny bit sticking to their food, but usually it just lays there like a good substrate and doesn't cause any trouble. Cypress mulch is hard to find on the west coast of the USA, but if you have an Orchard Supply Hardware store in your area, orchid bark (Wonder bark brand) is sold there.

 

[Tom]

I agree with Kristina 100% here.

I like to use Calcium in small amounts about twice a week. While it may be water soluble and pass through it can also interfere with the absorption of other important minerals, trace elements and amino acids.

 

[kelarned]

as requested, here is a pic of the little guys eating.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Welcome to the forum! Agree calcium, no D3, I like every day but every other day is probably fine (the amount that gets in the tummy vs. what you put on the food varies too). Ditch the tube (they are very low UVB output and only good for 6 months anyways) and get a 100 Watt T-Rex Active UV Heat or Mega Ray Mercury Vapor Bulb with a deep and wide ceramic socket hood fixture, a lamp stand (mount the bulb face parallel to the substrate), and a temp gun (if you don't have one already--those wale gauge things are junk). As much sun as you can get them is best. Ditch the Rabe-Rabini. Diet sounds good but you don't have to buy all of those greens every week--I'd do the spring mix plus 1-2 others a week (you can also add collards and watercress and small amounts of kale, off the top of my head) If you can get them to eat more hay that is good. Also the more weeds the better. Cypress mulch is probably a good substrate choice if you don't like the coir and need something humid. I'd get a slate tile for feeding--more space will help keep the substrate off the food, and it will help wear down the beak and nails too. So cute! Good luck.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Some other treats besides cactus are pumpkin and butternut squash. To give you an idea, I like to keep treats to about 5% of the diet. Also, until you get a MVB, double check the distance the UVB tube is supposed to be from your torts. Some brands are no more than 12 inches, some are no more than 20 inches. As it gets colder at night, if your house gets under 70 F, you will want to have a ceramic heat emitter or black light bulb for them, if you don't do this already. You don't want it too hot though, as they still need a night temp drop, but 65-75 is a good range. What are your day temps like?