Adult Sulcata Night Box- Humidity Questions

[Nemytort]

I put water in tubs on shelves. This is one of my star boxes. I couldn't find a good pic of a sulcata box. I do NOT use heat lamps, Pond Shield, or substrate with the sulcata or leopard boxes. I only do these things in boxes meant to house little tortoises that need to stay over 80% humidity, you know, like Burmese stars.
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If your box is not sealed, insulated, or weather stripped enough, the heat will run more and dry everything out more. My heaters seldom turn on. Only two or three times a night usually. I have no problem maintaining 60-70% humidity with the water tubs.

@Nemytort How are you heating your box?


I don't. I had the bottom of a leopard box rot out after about 10 years, because those girls constantly peed and made a mess in there. I just dried it all out and put a plywood patch over the affected area. 10 more years now.

I had some wood rot in the star box shown above too because I did a poor job of working with the Pond Shield and there were gaps in the coverage. I like that stuff, but it is NOT easy to work with and you need a lot of it for waterproof coverage. Subsequent boxes turned out much better and have not rotted at all because I used the product correctly on them.

But to answer the above question: No mold ever in any of my boxes, treated or untreated.

I’m heating my 4x4x2 box using an RHP and I was worried it wouldn’t be enough but it’s working great. I probably need a bunch more water tubs. I’m in a dry desert climate.
The heat stays great on my WiFi thermometer, but I haven’t finished weather stripping yet. It might be turning on a lot.

 

[Tom]

I’m heating my 4x4x2 box using an RHP and I was worried it wouldn’t be enough but it’s working great. I probably need a bunch more water tubs. I’m in a dry desert climate.
The heat stays great on my WiFi thermometer, but I haven’t finished weather stripping yet. It might be turning on a lot.

Due to the mass and volume of a large sulcata, I don't think heat only from above is effective. The combination of an 18x28inch Kane heat mat under them and the RHP over head seems to work really well. If its relatively warm outside and the RHP is able to keep the air temp up over in the coldest corner box away from any heat source, then its probably fine. But in winter, when day time highs are sometimes only in the 50s or 60s and over night lows drop into the 30s, you need some safe belly heat too.

 

[BajatheChickenMan]

Due to the mass and volume of a large sulcata, I don't think heat only from above is effective. The combination of an 18x28inch Kane heat mat under them and the RHP over head seems to work really well. If its relatively warm outside and the RHP is able to keep the air temp up over in the coldest corner box away from any heat source, then its probably fine. But in winter, when day time highs are sometimes only in the 50s or 60s and over night lows drop into the 30s, you need some safe belly heat too.

Im just curious as far as heat mats go, why are they recommended for adults but not babies? I can see not putting them directly in enclosures for young ones due to possible burning, but why not the under tank types?

 

[Tom]

Im just curious as far as heat mats go, why are they recommended for adults but not babies? I can see not putting them directly in enclosures for young ones due to possible burning, but why not the under tank types?

Good question, and this comes up pretty regularly.

When a tortoise feels too hot in the wild, it digs down into the cooler earth. All of them will do this, not just the burrowing species. So if the little tortoise parks over on the side with an under tank heater and gets warm, it will dig down to escape the heat. As it gets closer to the pad it gets hotter, so the tortoise digs down further into the earth and gets closer to the heat source... They don't have the powers of reason and logic that we do, and their instinct tells them to dig deeper when they feel too hot. Pretty soon they end up directly on the pad and they can over heat or get burned.

The heat pads for adult tortoises are already at the surface and they have built in safeties to prevent over heating. Also, unless you live in sub saharan Africa, the night air and winters tend to be cold, and this belly heat really helps larger tortoises cope with weather that is colder than in their natural habitat. Their gut flora and fauna need to be kept in a certain temperature range to remain healthy. Warming the whole tortoise is easy for an indoor little baby. Warming the whole tortoise all the way through when it weighs 50-150 pounds and lives outside where night temps outside the box drop into the 30s, and daytime highs in winter only reach the 60s requires some electric help. Heating the top of a large tortoise with an RHP just isn't enough to get heat to their core and to the plastron. Having them lay on a 100 degree pig blanket for hours warms them from the bottom up. The combo of the two heating elements sandwiches a big behemoth in the warmth they they need. This is also why CHEs and heat lamps don't work for larger tortoises. Those overheat the surface of the carapace, frequently causing burns, but they don't heat the core or the bottom of a large tortoise.

 

[BajatheChickenMan]

Good question, and this comes up pretty regularly.

When a tortoise feels too hot in the wild, it digs down into the cooler earth. All of them will do this, not just the burrowing species. So if the little tortoise parks over on the side with an under tank heater and gets warm, it will dig down to escape the heat. As it gets closer to the pad it gets hotter, so the tortoise digs down further into the earth and gets closer to the heat source... They don't have the powers of reason and logic that we do, and their instinct tells them to dig deeper when they feel too hot. Pretty soon they end up directly on the pad and they can over heat or get burned.

The heat pads for adult tortoises are already at the surface and they have built in safeties to prevent over heating. Also, unless you live in sub saharan Africa, the night air and winters tend to be cold, and this belly heat really helps larger tortoises cope with weather that is colder than in their natural habitat. Their gut flora and fauna need to be kept in a certain temperature range to remain healthy. Warming the whole tortoise is easy for an indoor little baby. Warming the whole tortoise all the way through when it weighs 50-150 pounds and lives outside where night temps outside the box drop into the 30s, and daytime highs in winter only reach the 60s requires some electric help. Heating the top of a large tortoise with an RHP just isn't enough to get heat to their core and to the plastron. Having them lay on a 100 degree pig blanket for hours warms them from the bottom up. The combo of the two heating elements sandwiches a big behemoth in the warmth they they need. This is also why CHEs and heat lamps don't work for larger tortoises. Those overheat the surface of the carapace, frequently causing burns, but they don't heat the core or the bottom of a large tortoise.

Fascinating stuff, I feel like I'm learning about sub-African weather on this site as much as I am torts

Have you ever tried heated tiles in a night box before or would those be too risky?

 

[Tom]

Fascinating stuff, I feel like I'm learning about sub-African weather on this site as much as I am torts

Have you ever tried heated tiles in a night box before or would those be too risky?

I don't know what that is, so no, I've never tried it.

 

[ryan57]

Im just curious as far as heat mats go, why are they recommended for adults but not babies? I can see not putting them directly in enclosures for young ones due to possible burning, but why not the under tank types?

During any season other than winter, the one basking bulb or going outside seems to be great. Especially if it's a sunny day. During winter, my sweet, sweet Stumpy chooses to go to the wood stove to get really warm when he wants to as he did today.

I have a snow success story: I know it's a sad case but I shoveled part of the yard last night for him and set up the greenhouse before it snowed today and he was very, very happy to have green grass to eat today. I heated that space 13'x3'x3' this morning to 90 degrees and he was really happy and ate for an hour out there.

Tom is absolutely right about the digging down thing and they have to be able to get away from the heat when they want to. There is a heating pad on part of the top of each doggie bed cover that allows him to move around for the right amount of heat at all times. The bottom is always cooler which is why he doesn't dig down after flipping a bunch of times to settle in. Now that I'm thinking about it, he will always seek a light, go outside, or the wood stove after eating and then retreat to something with a cooler bottom after he's up to temperature.