And This Is Why I Won't Build Closed Chambers From Wood Anymore...

[Tom]

I built this enclosure back in 2015. See it here: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/2015-growth-experiment.119874/
I put THREE coats of Drylock on the bottom, and I laid it on thick. After just two years, the bottom started falling out. I put a plywood patch in place to hold me over until I could get it repaired or replaced. My fantastic Animal Plastics cages finally arrived, so I hauled this one out of the way. Check out what happened after just three years:






Obviously, Drylock does not work for our purposes, but using plastic instead of wood solves this problem entirely.

 

[Minority2]

Did you use a heavy duty tarp as a lining for that Sulcata enclosure?

 

[Tom]

Did you use a heavy duty tarp as a lining for that Sulcata enclosure?

No. Tarps don't work either. I tried that about 5 years ago. Tried heavy duty plastic too. Nothing I've tried has worked long term.

I've got some going with pond lining epoxy now, and we will see how well that holds up as the months and years pass by.

In my opinion, nothing is going to beat expanded PVC sheets, instead of wood. I just buy Animal Plastics cages now that are cheaper than what I can build a wooden one for. And I'm just talking about the cost of the materials, not even counting the 40 hours of my time. And theirs are much nicer looking than mine.

 

[wellington]

Correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't you say a long time ago and maybe several times since that you don't treat the inside?
Plastic is always going to last longer but not many will or can spend the money on them. Wood is less costly in different areas and more easily reconfigured and to be made by the person.
Ever thought or what are your thoughts on the flex steel? I might have asked you this already.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I agree.
I also in the past recommended using wood sealed with fiberglass, cement sealed with fiberglass and so on.
Now, so much time has passed that I can say that I was wrong.
Almost everything I have/had sealed has now cracked or otherwise separated.

 

[wellington]

I agree.
I also in the past recommended using wood sealed with fiberglass, cement sealed with fiberglass and so on.
Now, so much time has passed that I can say that I was wrong.
Almost everything I have/had sealed has now cracked or otherwise separated.

If you think about it though. A house made from
wood gets painted. Then it gets painted every few years. Same with the old wood boats. There is up keep to keep them from rotting. Most of us do it once, even several coats, but at once and don't do any up keep. The key too keeping them lasting is having to uproot the tort, and all the stuff and cleaning and recoating. The only way wood will ever last forever.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

How about fiberglass resin? It's very popular among varanus keepers.

I referred to resin.
It just doesn't stand the test of time with heat and humidity.

 

[wellington]

I'd like too know how long the plastic cages last with the high heat before they start warping if ever? Or the clear plastic part of those cages start getting a crackle look too them if ever.
My thick acrylic aquarium took about a year with high heat to start warping and getting a crackle affect. Different kind of plastic I think but still happened. Not a closed chamber either.

 

[Tom]

Correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't you say a long time ago and maybe several times since that you don't treat the inside?
Plastic is always going to last longer but not many will or can spend the money on them. Wood is less costly in different areas and more easily reconfigured and to be made by the person.
Ever thought or what are your thoughts on the flex steel? I might have asked you this already.

I don't treat the insides of most of the outdoor night boxes, but I've been rethinking that too. In the past I didn't treat the insides of my closed chambers, but then I started ramping up the dampness and humidity, and it can be a problem. Live and learn.

I've never tried flex seal. Not sure about its toxicity level in a hot closed chamber.

Having just recently built four 4x8 night boxes and purchased 6 AP cages, I can tell you with certainty that buying a large Animal plastics enclosure and paying for shipping is cheaper than buying the materials to build one out of wood. It makes no sense to build one anymore. The wood and materials costs more than buying a perfect, precision made, custom enclosure. And this isn't even counting all the time, effort and running around to get all the materials and parts and do the building. Plus you don't need any tools to make the AP cages. Just a screw driver. Building one only makes sense if you enjoy building stuff, need a custom fit that can't be bought, and don't mind spending a bunch of money and time on trying to seal a wooden enclosure. That pond shield stuff I sealed the inside of my last two night boxes with cost $90, and I really need two to get it done correctly.

 

[daniellenc]

I don’t know about cheaper @Tom with shipping my cage was $1,300. RHP’s $250, and UV lights $48. Haven’t even bought the interior stuff yet. If you have the tools wood would seem cheaper?

 

[Maro2Bear]

I don’t know about cheaper @Tom with shipping my cage was $1,300. RHP’s $250, and UV lights $48. Haven’t even bought the interior stuff yet. If you have the tools wood would seem cheaper?

And, I’m sure those APC enclosures are not as well insulated as @Tom ’s 4x8 night boxes are. So, we are still looking at a pretty high price for an enclosure intended (i think) primarily for only indoor use. I might be off here, just wondering out loud.

 

[Tom]

I don’t know about cheaper @Tom with shipping my cage was $1,300. RHP’s $250, and UV lights $48. Haven’t even bought the interior stuff yet. If you have the tools wood would seem cheaper?

Leave the electric stuff out. That costs the same regardless of what the enclosure is made of. If you add up the cost of plywood, insulation, screws, 2x4s, 2x3s, primer and paint for the outside, some sort of water proofing for the inside, any hinges or latches, vents, glass or plexi for the windows, plastic runners for sliding windows or hinges and frames for the windows, silicone sealant, etc… You've spent more than the cost of a large AP cage. Now you need the tools to build your wooden cage, which I have well over $1000 worth of tools, and you need about 40 hours of your time.

Have you guys priced lumber lately? A decent sheet of plywood is now $30+. 2x4s that used to sell for .78 cents are now $3.30 EACH! I need about 15-20 2x4s in my builds, and 7 sheets of plywood. I use Deck Mate screws because they are well made, last a long time and the heads don't pop off when you screw them in. A single box of Deck Mate screws costs $10 for the small box or $25 for the big box. You'll need at least 3 sizes of these screws. Have you looked at the price of plexi or glass lately? That will be $60-100 or more, depending on size. Paint. Primer is about $25. Then a good Behr Exterior paint is about $45. Now we have to figure out what to do with the inside of our closed chamber. Boat paint that is meant to be submerged is $90 for primer and $130 for the paint. Pond Sheild is $90 for a quart, and you will need two quart to do the inside top to bottom of a large closed chamber. I have no experience with Flex Seal and do not know if it is safe, or not, but that costs $36 per quart, and I don't know how thick it goes on, but you'll need at least 2 quarts and maybe four. Silicone sealant: I use 5 or 6 tubes per build at $6 a tube. Hinges go for $4 each. You'll need at least 4 for two doors, and more if the top opens up. I know there is more that I'm not thinking of, but it all adds up. I usually walk out with a $600-700 receipt when building a new box, and then I have to go back for odds and ends that come up. This is not counting the electrical heating, extension cords, lighting, timers and thermostats. Just the box.

Its no contest. And remember, we are just talking about the cost of the raw materials. We haven't even begun to consider the time, skill, and load of tools needed to build your own compared to getting a precision made perfectly fitted one from AP. Believe me, in the past I was all about building your own because it was cheaper and I could custom build it to suit my design. Look at the link I posted from 2015. If there was a place to buy that in 2015, I didn't know of it, so I built my own. Look at the result just two years later. Now I've found a place that makes an excellent cage for me for less money than the raw materials of building my own. And I don't have to spend literally an entire work week building and painting it, and I don't need a truck load of tools. The AP cage that was the same size as the hand built wooden cage that is being replaced cost $399. Shipping for 6 AP cages was $341, so roughly $57 per cage, but what does it cost in fuel and wear and tear on your own vehicle to make several trips to Home Depot, again not even considering the hours of your time.

To tell people it is cheaper to build their own is incorrect. Once a person does it both ways, this will be obvious.

 

[Yvonne G]

Or you can have a fairy godfather who has an extra plastic closed chamber and is more than willing to let you use it! I love it so much that I've asked him to get me another one! No more kitchen foil or plastic sheeting for this old gal!!!

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

From Dan Sterant,

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/b...-chamber-–-for-beginners.159220/#post-1507106

this plan is so easy to follow even I can do it, I think, I did not build one of these yet. Even if the materials are twice the cost, plastic over plywood, you'll get more than twice the years. The AP are expensive brand new, but there are enough 'used' ones for sale that with some good sanitizing you can beat the cost of time and materials for any enclosure that is already built.

I have made several Vision cages into tortoise habitats, that works well too. I have converted cricket tubs to tortoise enclosure, that takes more time, but still less $$ than brand new AP cages. The Waterland tubs will also work, but take more effort as they are all sorta odd sizes. I even make mini plastic enclosed housing with one MacCourt tub inverted over another one, I posted images here somewhere?

 

[daniellenc]

From Dan Sterant,

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/building-your-own-expanded-pvc-enclosed-chamber-–-for-beginners.159220/#post-1507106

this plan is so easy to follow even I can do it, I think, I did not build one of these yet. Even if the materials are twice the cost, plastic over plywood, you'll get more than twice the years. The AP are expensive brand new, but there are enough 'used' ones for sale that with some good sanitizing you can beat the cost of time and materials for any enclosure that is already built.

I have made several Vision cages into tortoise habitats, that works well too. I have converted cricket tubs to tortoise enclosure, that takes more time, but still less $$ than brand new AP cages. The Waterland tubs will also work, but take more effort as they are all sorta odd sizes. I even make mini plastic enclosed housing with one MacCourt tub inverted over another one, I posted images here somewhere?

I need to know where to find these used AP cages. I bought the largest one they make and it hurt my wallet. I'd love another tortoise but boy I love my mini vacations and I gave up one just to house my RF lol

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I need to know where to find these used AP cages. I bought the largest one they make and it hurt my wallet. I'd love another tortoise but boy I love my mini vacations and I gave up one just to house my RF lol

Keep a daily scan on your local craigslist, locale buy/sell and reptile pages on FaceBook, and review the cages and supplies subforum on FaunaClassified.

I got three AP cages T13 (48 X 30 X 18) for $150 each. Killer opportunity. Most of the vision cages I got at 1/3 to 1/2 the LLLreptile list price. I don't know why but the resources I mentioned will be dry for months and then all of a sudden, bam they are everywhere.

I get it the AP cages are pretty close to plug and play (require assembly) and the Vision cages and cricket tubs take some work to make the tortoise friendly, but balance that with mini-vacations and decide. Even a local 'handyman type person and cheap Vision Cages can be less than a new AP cage.

 

[daniellenc]

Well I'll be keeping my eye out. I'd love one more Red Foot but would not love to drop another $1500 on a custom cage, lol