Another swollen eye thread

[Shelly&Poseidon]

Hey all! Been lurking and reading through the site for the last few months. But hoping to get some advice before I through the kitchen sink at her.

I got two baby Hermann's for the kids (Shelly and Poseidon) I think they where around 2-3m when I got them back in February. Up until a couple weeks ago they have both been big eaters and fast movers. Now Shelly's eyes are swollen shut and white. And I am not sure what to do from here. (Poseidon is fine with no swelling or whiteness around eyes)

I ordered some zoomed eye drops to try. Anything else I can or should be doing?

Appreciate any help and for such an awesome forum. I tried to follow the info for new people thread as closely as possible for lights and substrate etc.



Substrate: Coconut (It has mostly been dry other then spraying some water a few times a day. I am trying to keep it more moist now)
Temp/Humidity: 71-85F / 40-80
Supplements: occasional calcium powder added to food. (Will be adding cuttlefish bone to cage this weekend)
Soaking: once a day 30minutes - Should I increase to 2-3 times a day?
Diet: Mostly Kale, spinach, cilantro, and pellets a couple times a week. (Should I add carrots and dandelion leaves from the backyard? )


Lights:



UV only 2hrs a day in the afternoon. They also get some direct sun light through the window in the late afternoon:


I ordered some zoomed eye drops to try. Anything else I can or should be doing?

 

[wellington]

First they need to be seperated ASAP never kept in pairs
They need a basking temp from an incandescent flood bulb that reaches 95-100, a tube florescent for uvb and ceramic heat emitter for night heat and any added day heat needed.
Day temps should range 75-80 and night temps not lower than 70. Humidity 80% with a closed chamber.
Get the changes done ASAP!
Soak Shelley in bany food carrots added to the warm soak water and add flavorless piedialyte also. Do this 1/2 hour at least daily and always keep her warm.

 

[jaizei]

How tall if the enclosure/how high is the UVB mounted above where the tortoise basks, since it looks like the UVB is mounted inside the tank?

You should also stop using that UVB bulb. https://tomaskas.co.uk/giangarden-t5ho-lamp-report/

 

[Tom]

Hey all! Been lurking and reading through the site for the last few months. But hoping to get some advice before I through the kitchen sink at her.

I got two baby Hermann's for the kids (Shelly and Poseidon) I think they where around 2-3m when I got them back in February. Up until a couple weeks ago they have both been big eaters and fast movers. Now Shelly's eyes are swollen shut and white. And I am not sure what to do from here. (Poseidon is fine with no swelling or whiteness around eyes)

I ordered some zoomed eye drops to try. Anything else I can or should be doing?

Appreciate any help and for such an awesome forum. I tried to follow the info for new people thread as closely as possible for lights and substrate etc.



Substrate: Coconut (It has mostly been dry other then spraying some water a few times a day. I am trying to keep it more moist now)
Temp/Humidity: 71-85F / 40-80
Supplements: occasional calcium powder added to food. (Will be adding cuttlefish bone to cage this weekend)
Soaking: once a day 30minutes - Should I increase to 2-3 times a day?
Diet: Mostly Kale, spinach, cilantro, and pellets a couple times a week. (Should I add carrots and dandelion leaves from the backyard? )

View attachment 369657
Lights:

View attachment 369653

UV only 2hrs a day in the afternoon. They also get some direct sun light through the window in the late afternoon:
View attachment 369654

I ordered some zoomed eye drops to try. Anything else I can or should be doing?
View attachment 369656

View attachment 369655

Hello and welcome. Where in CA? Different advice for Salinas vs. Salton Sea.

Is it one eye or both?

Sounds like your basking temp is not warm enough. Get it up to 100 directly under the bulb. Check this by placing a digital thermometer on its back directly under the light and letting it cook there for an hour or more. Adjust the height or wattage as needed. More info on heating and lighting in the care sheets I will leave.

Kale, spinach and cilantro are all okay foods once in a while, but none of those should be staples. More info on what to feed in the care sheets.

Definitely separate the ASAP. They should never live in pairs.

That is an off brand UV tube, and I don't know if it is safe or not. Do you have a Solarmeter 6.5 to check it with? Generally speaking, the 5.0 bulbs don't make enough UVB to get the job done. Only a meter can tell us for sure.

Read through this at least a couple of times, and look for the temperate species care sheet near the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Shelly&Poseidon]

How tall if the enclosure/how high is the UVB mounted above where the tortoise basks, since it looks like the UVB is mounted inside the tank?

You should also stop using that UVB bulb. https://tomaskas.co.uk/giangarden-t5ho-lamp-report/

UV light is mounted approx 8.5" above the substrate. What bulb would you recommend?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

UV light is mounted approx 8.5" above the substrate. What bulb would you recommend?

Jaizei will probably give you a better advice. Yet, I'll try my best.

1. Get a T5 HO lamp by Arcadia or ZooMed which fits your current fixture (check length/wattage).
2. Even for 6% (aka 5.0) lamps - 8.5 inches is too low. Your option is to put the lamp over the mesh top.
3. For the height of 12" over substrate, probably a 6% (Arcadia Forest or ZooMed Reptisun 5.0) will be fine. I would cut the mesh under the lamp so it doesn't obstruct the light. Ideally, to have a radiometer (Solarmeter 6.5) to measure UVI under the lamp, otherwise we are just guessing.
4. I would move basking and UVB lamps to one of the sides of the enclosure. But if there is a nighttime heater in that double fixture - just leave it in the middle.
5. Try to arrange climbing rocks and such that way that tortoises don't look directly at the lamps when climbing.
6. Turn off the UVB lamp you are using. According to the report linked by Jaizei, it might cause harm to the eyes (especially when mounted too low). A few days without UVB aren't harmful, but the wrong UV lamp is.
7. After changing the UVB lamp run it for 4 hours a day, not 2.

 

[Shelly&Poseidon]

Which of these would you recommend? I have the color changing cards that i have been using to test my current setup.

 

[Shelly&Poseidon]

Great news! following everything that was said and after the last soak with baby food carrots Shelly opened both eyes!

The eye drops will be delivered today, should I still use them?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Should I add carrots and dandelion leaves from the backyard?

You should add some more variety to their diet. If you don't use any pesticides in your garden, and it isn't polluted by heavy traffic or something, the dandelion leaves are a good option. This is a useful website when checking what plants you can feed. I can't comment on the eye drops since I don't know about the suitability of the ones you mentioned.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Which of these would you recommend? I have the color changing cards that i have been using to test my current setup.
View attachment 369675
View attachment 369676

I would go with ZooMed 5.0 for now. You can't safely use 10.0 or 12% lamps in your current setup.

When you'll have to build larger enclosures for your tortoises, there you can use 12% lamps, more suitable for Hermanns (mounting height is about 18 inches). And then Arcadia would be a better choice due to their long lifespan.

UV test cards are not a reliable measurement tool, unfortunately (I wish they were...).

 

[Shelly&Poseidon]

Shellys eyes are shut again. So I started the eye drops. Twice a day is what it says on the bottle.

Also how often are you changing out the bedding? And should I soak and then squeeze the water out of it so it stays damp/wet?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Is Shelly active and eating? If not, continue daily carrot soaks (around 60 minutes, keep water warm) and offer her food right aftewards. Is UVB tube lamp turned off while you're waiting for a new one? What lamp is in the dome?

Bedding can serve for year or more with timely spot cleaning and regular tortoise soaks. For tortoises coco coir (soil-like fine ground coconut shell) is better than husks. After soaking the brick in water drain the excess and put it in the enclosure, hand pack coco coir to make it less messy and dusty. Substrate should be kept damp (pour some water in enclosure corners from time to time).

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Is Shelly active and eating? If not, continue daily carrot soaks (around 60 minutes, keep water warm) and offer her food right aftewards. Is UVB tube lamp turned off while you're waiting for a new one? What lamp is in the dome?

Bedding can serve for year or more with timely spot cleaning and regular tortoise soaks. For tortoises coco coir (soil-like fine ground coconut shell) is better than husks. After soaking the brick in water drain the excess and put it in the enclosure, hand pack coco coir to make it less messy and dusty. Substrate should be kept damp (pour some water in enclosure corners from time to time).

Some people say that packing the soil down about one thrid, (so 6 inches should be packed down to 4 inches and so on) is a good rule of thumb. I wouldn't change the substarete too often, unless you got some trouble with it (parasites, mold etc.).

 

[Shelly&Poseidon]

Is Shelly active and eating? If not, continue daily carrot soaks (around 60 minutes, keep water warm) and offer her food right aftewards. Is UVB tube lamp turned off while you're waiting for a new one? What lamp is in the dome?

Bedding can serve for year or more with timely spot cleaning and regular tortoise soaks. For tortoises coco coir (soil-like fine ground coconut shell) is better than husks. After soaking the brick in water drain the excess and put it in the enclosure, hand pack coco coir to make it less messy and dusty. Substrate should be kept damp (pour some water in enclosure corners from time to time).

Shelly is moving around still but I haven't seen any eating. I will up the soaks from 30min to 60min. I have this in the dome and a red heat lamp on the other side:

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Shelly is moving around still but I haven't seen any eating. I will up the soaks from 30min to 60min. I have this in the dome and a red heat lamp on the other side:
View attachment 369741

The lamp in the dome is correct.

Colored (blue/red) heat bulbs should not be used with tortoises - sometimes this messes with their color vision and makes them eat wrong things, like substrate. They also prefer to sleep in the darkness. Ceramic heat emitters (CHE) are the better ambient heat source as they give no light, fairly cheap and last long. The only detail to consider - the lamp socket should be ceramic. Also, it's highly recommended to use a thermostat to control temperature.

 

[TammyJ]

Have you separated them from each other? Aside from soaking, temperatures, humidity, lighting and diet, separation is of the greatest importance in giving each tortoise the best possible start towards its healthy and comfortable life with you!

 

[Shelly&Poseidon]

Shelly appears to have died. I put in the new light yesterday and she even drank some of the carrot water yesterday. This morning her eyes where open. 6 year old is taking it pretty hard. I dont think it was environmental because the other done is doing great.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Oh... that's immensely sad... I'm so sorry... It's never easy to take.
You may check for the life signs - try to pull her legs or very very gently poke her eye with a Q-tip. Sometimes tortoises literally look dead for a day or two and then bounce back to life... If she is still responsive and limbs aren't stiff you may try to keep her in a carrot soak for a an hour, close to (but not under) the heat lamp... If you see any minor movements - make her a temporary enclosure out of plastic box with a heat lamp.

And in any case it was not your fault: nothing in her environment was deadly wrong and you didn't know that keeping them as a pair was stressful.

 

[TammyJ]

Does she still seem lifeless?

 

[EppsDynasty]

I am sorry for your loss. This is a perfect example of how changes are needed as fast as possible. Many think their tort is just feeling bad, instead of "My tortoise is about to die." I'm glad you came here to ask questions, only wish it could of been sooner. This was what @wellington was trying to stress.