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Another way to prevent pyramyding?

KatApril

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Ive never worried much about Binkey's humidity as my green/fish room provided a ton. But tearing my tanks down one by one anticipating a move past couple months ive sorta been cheating on humidity factor a tad and getting away with it with good results.

Besides staying intop of nutrition and proper diet, (+proper unfiltered light spectrum and heat which should never ever be ignored) Ive been taking much more wiggle room on humidity and getting good results. I still keep his enviroment moist and provide him with a burrow. BUT now here the big but....Ive been putting something on his shell (with enough research ofcourse) which has been keeping the cuticle soft and allowing for smooth growth. Anyone else find good results with topical applications? I feel like this info can potentially be important seeing how many sulcatas get pyramyding even on the forum and how many people abuse the humidity factor or just cant get it right20200108_180630_HDR.jpg 20200108_180618_HDR.jpg 20200108_180614_HDR.jpg ......
 

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Yvonne G

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Yes, some of our members use topicals, but I think the reason you're seeing good results is because previously you had him set up with high humidity. The idea is you have to start the humidity thing from hatching, which it sounds like you did.
 

wellington

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Like Yvonne said. Others do or have done the topical with good results. However, those results were also with good humidity.
As for yours, it's either still doing good because they were started right as Yvonne said, or it just hasnt been long enough to show pyramiding. Hatchling leopards I have had didnt show pyramiding until about 6 months or more. That's with high humidity but using the now known not so great for pyramiding MVB.
If I were you, I wouldnt wait too long. You have a great looking shells to ruin it now by possibly waiting too long
 

KatApril

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Zero Pilot if you would have read my post youd realize its not an experiment....i just couldnt prove the humidity he once had, it was situational. So i 1.) Researched other options (according to their natural environment) 2.) Made a call not to forsake Binkeys Health. It was that or just LET HIM PYRAMID from low humidity as i had no other means to provide it at the time. Even slightly lower humidity with my setup would dry up and raise the cuticle of new growth( things like coconut or olive oil that others suggested werent cutting it). I didnt like that, i wanted a nice flat shiny cuticle. And YES im positive he would have been much more pyramided, as he was 6 months old when i had to start compensating for humidity. Photos speak for themselves. Hes probably one of the smoothest tortoises ive seen on the forum, and i use MVB 100W Powersun and two other 100W+ spotlights. Might I add with an open enclosure. There is no doubt in my mind that a 6 month old Sulcata(within the first year or 2 really) will begin to pyramid even after a good start if not provided the essentials(one being humidity) as is made evident here on the forum.....

Hes 13 months old, hes twice the size he was at 6 months fyi, tons of new growth. So it really raises the question of is it something that can be used in these cases where people run into situations where they need to compensate....
 
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xMario

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Hello :)
u wrote ur putting something on his shell
What exactly?
And can u post a picture of it?
How long do u let it on his shell?
How often do u apply it?
 

ZEROPILOT

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Zero Pilot if you would have read my post youd realize its not an experiment....i just couldnt prove the humidity he once had, it was situational. So i 1.) Researched other options (according to their natural environment) 2.) Made a call not to forsake Binkeys Health. It was that or just LET HIM PYRAMID from low humidity as i had no other means to provide it at the time. Even slightly lower humidity with my setup would dry up and raise the cuticle of new growth( things like coconut or olive oil that others suggested werent cutting it). I didnt like that, i wanted a nice flat shiny cuticle. And YES im positive he would have been much more pyramided, as he was 6 months old when i had to compensate for humidity. Photos speak for themselves. Hes probably one of the smoothest tortoises ive seen on the forum, and i use MVB 100W Powersun and two other 100W+ spotlights. Might I add with an open enclosure. There is no doubt in my mind that a 6 month old Sulcata(within the first year or 2 really) will begin to pyramid even after a good start if not provided the essentials(one being humidity) as is made evident here on the forum.....

Hes 13 months old, hes twice the size he was at 6 months fyi, tons of new growth. So it really raises the question of is it something that can be used in these cases where people run into situations where they need to compensate....
I don't think that Pyramiding is the sole issue with lack of humidity.
 

KatApril

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I don't think that Pyramiding is the sole issue with lack of humidity.
Oh ok then all power to you and your belief. I have one tortoise and have had only one so i cant say i can argue that, altho others on here have experimented. Even 1-2 weeks with my setp caused some uneven and raised new growth. Thats where i realized, yeah hes gonna keep pyramiding and its only gonna get worst. I changed nothing else but the humidity in my case. I was souly focusing on preventing the cuticle from drying up atall, so far its working exceprionally well....altho i cant say what itll be like 2 years from now.
 

Markw84

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I don't think that Pyramiding is the sole issue with lack of humidity.
I believe desiccation of the new keratin growth at expanding growth seams is exactly what causes pyramiding. Different thing can impact that. Humidity is certainly the predominant and more natural way to help control that. Applying something like coconut oil to help keep that seam from desiccating could certainly be a big help. Excessive IR and UVA could also prematurely harden the new keratin growth.

Humidity does more than simply help pyramiding as the whole tortoise developing proper metabolic activities is greatly benefited by high humidity. Some things, like organ development, you cannot see. So be careful of feeling lower humidy/hydration is OK just because the pyramiding may be in check.
 

ZEROPILOT

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Oh ok then all power to you and your belief. I have one tortoise and have had only one so i cant say i can argue that, altho others on here have experimented. I was souly focusing on preventing the cuticle from drying up atall, so far its working exceprionally well....altho i cant say what itll be like 2 years from now.
I wish you the best.
Everyone that does something a bit different can eventually help someone in the future with a similar issue. My concern is that there are more things to consider with low humidity than just pyramiding.
I believe desiccation of the new keratin growth at expanding growth seams is exactly what causes pyramiding. Different thing can impact that. Humidity is certainly the predominant and more natural way to help control that. Applying something like coconut oil to help keep that seam from desiccating could certainly be a big help. Excessive IR and UVA could also prematurely harden the new keratin growth.

Humidity does more than simply help pyramiding as the whole tortoise developing proper metabolic activities is greatly benefited by high humidity. Some things, like organ development, you cannot see. So be careful of feeling lower humidy/hydration is OK just because the pyramiding may be in check.
That's also my understanding. That pyramiding can be an outward sign of a larger issue.
Pyramiding itself is not actually harmful. It's often a sign that other issues may be going on.
Bad husbandry in general.
 
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KatApril

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I believe desiccation of the new keratin growth at expanding growth seams is exactly what causes pyramiding. Different thing can impact that. Humidity is certainly the predominant and more natural way to help control that. Applying something like coconut oil to help keep that seam from desiccating could certainly be a big help. Excessive IR and UVA could also prematurely harden the new keratin growth.

Humidity does more than simply help pyramiding as the whole tortoise developing proper metabolic activities is greatly benefited by high humidity. Some things, like organ development, you cannot see. So be careful of feeling lower humidy/hydration is OK just because the pyramiding may be in check.

Good point. Humidity is not compeltely out of the picture but it is below 85% which was the only way my setup worked in terms of not drying out the cuticle when the spotlights hit it directly. Also, a big success was making an actual burrow for him mixed with some sand and coco coir which is nice warm and moist in there. Topical application was targeted for when he is out and basking, which is 50% of the time.
 

Tom

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Good point. Humidity is not compeltely out of the picture but it is below 85% which was the only way my setup worked in terms of not drying out the cuticle when the spotlights hit it directly. Also, a big success was making an actual burrow for him mixed with some sand and coco coir which is nice warm and moist in there. Topical application was targeted for when he is out and basking, which is 50% of the time.
So what are you putting on the shell?
 

KatApril

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Cerave Baby. Which Cerave matters. Not cream Not anything else but the Cerave Baby moisturizing Lotion.

Whatever you put on the shell make sure to check for allergens and toxins. Not all Cerave products are created equal fyi.
 

Tom

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Cerave Baby. Which Cerave matters. Not cream Not anything else but the Cerave Baby moisturizing Lotion.

Whatever you put on the shell make sure to check for allergens and toxins. Not all Cerave products are created equal fyi.
The results look really nice. Keep us posted on how things go in the long term.
 

TechnoCheese

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I’ve had really great success with coconut oil on my outdoor Sulcata, in addition to soaking. His space heater has been drying on his shell, so I definitely need to invest in a RHP.

There’s also an over the counter product called “shell saver” that has the same effect, and is very effective at moistening shells.
 

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