any hope for my russian?

[ogredawg19]

At first I thought I could help him, but after taking out the loose shells the rot looks bigger than I thought. The rot is completely dry and I've been treating him with betadine bath and antibiotic ointment. Although I did stop the antibiotic today, and I'm just going to try to do the betadine alone.

This is what I've been doing...
Rinse him off with just water and toothbrush
Dip him in a container for 15-20 min
Then apply betadine and brush it lightly
rinse off
let him dry then apply betadine again, but this time I'll just keep it there. I do make sure that he dries up before putting him back in his enclosure.

The substrate I'm using right now is just plain newspaper because I heard he needs to be as dry as possible.

He's eating very well (knock on wood).

 

[Minotaur]

It looks like there is quite a bit of damage but not a ton of irritation, and the fact that it is dry is good. If it all seems to be healing up, and you watch closely to make sure he doesn't go septic from any infection spreading to the bloodstream then I see no reason that he shouldn't survive, though he'll surely be scarred pretty badly. I think it looks like it's healing well.

 

[ogredawg19]

It looks like there is quite a bit of damage but not a ton of irritation, and the fact that it is dry is good. If it all seems to be healing up, and you watch closely to make sure he doesn't go septic from any infection spreading to the bloodstream then I see no reason that he shouldn't survive, though he'll surely be scarred pretty badly. I think it looks like it's healing well.

Thanks for the response.

I am hoping that he gets better. I've been giving him bath almost everyday (hopefully that's not bad). That's what I was thinking, I knew he wasn't going to look 100% normal again (at least the bottom shell) just as long as his healthy.

How long do I have to keep up the betadine treatment? And when should I switch subtrates?

Thanks again

 

[Crazy1]

I know you said you tried antibiotic ointment but have you tried a anti fungal?

 

[oswego tort lover]

i had a russian with the same plastron rot. the trouble is the wet infection may still exist under the dryed area. a topical antibiotic wouldnt reach it. i think you should see your vet asap. my thought is the tortoise should remain out of water for now. my animal also ate well, but was mush under the wound when my vet examined it. .........ed

 

[ogredawg19]

I know you said you tried antibiotic ointment but have you tried a anti fungal?

I actually just saw that today. Someone used foot cream or something like that. I might try that soon

 

[ogredawg19]

i had a russian with the same plastron rot. the trouble is the wet infection may still exist under the dryed area. a topical antibiotic wouldnt reach it. i think you should see your vet asap. my thought is the tortoise should remain out of water for now. my animal also ate well, but was mush under the wound when my vet examined it. .........ed

That's what I was worried about at first. I took it to a reptile specialty store who also does check ups and stuff, they used some kind of pointy tool (looked like the ones you see in the dental offices) and pressed on it really hard and nothing happened. He's actually the one that advised me to go with the betadine treatment. He did told me to keep it dry which is why I'm using newspaper as substrate. And I always make sure that he's dry before going back to his enclosure.

I know this is very selfish but I'll be honest. My plan is to try my best to try and heal him with home remedies, if things gets worse I'm going to take him to one of the reptile rescues we have here. We have two of them close by, and I know they'll take him. I've rescued couple of animals in the past and nothing can compare to the rewarding feeling you get when they get better. But I will for sure keep everyone updated, at least weekly

 

[egyptiandan]

Hi,
Your Russian tortoise is just fine What your seeing is healed shell rot and or just bone that died. When a tortoise's scute/s are compromised the bone underneath dies. When the bone dies a tortoise starts to heal right away, by placing a layer of scute material under the dead bone. If the bone died completely, after the scute material was in place the tortoise would put down new bone. When that is all done the old dead bone will loosen up and fall off.
Your tortoise's plastron will always look like that as the new scute material formed around the textured dead bone.
You can put her on regular substrate now. Just make sure you clean it off every time you bathe her.

Danny

 

[Yvonne G]

It's hard for us to tell just by looking at the picture whether its old shell rot or something that's still going on. But here's what I do for shell rot:

Like you, I take off whatever comes off freely. Then on the first two days, I use the diluted Betadine, just like you did. But Betadine, besides killing whatever "germs" there are, also inhibits the growth of new cells, so after the first couple times of Betadine I switch to Nolvasan. Nolvasan is the scrub that doctors use for surgery. I believe the ingredient is called Chlorhexidine. It still kills off the bad "germs" but does not inhibit the growth of new cells.

If you don't feel any soft spots in the shell rot area, its "old" shell rot and you have nothing to worry about. But if you prod it with the tip of an orange stick and any places feel soft or have a "give" to it, its still active shell rot and you need to keep up with the treatment.

Quite a few wild caught Russian tortoises have the same problem that you've seen. They gather them up in the wild by the thousands and pile them all up on top of each other in bins...with all the poop and pee. Its just terrible, and no wonder they suffer from shell rot by the time they get to their destination!

Yvonne

 

[egyptiandan]

Sorry Yvonne, but please don't push on the new scute material (the part that looks like cottage cheese). It's very delicate at this stage and you could push it off the bone very easily. Also if that material gives it means that the bone underneath isn't completely formed.
By all means though you can push on any of the smooth scute material to see if there still is some shell rot going on in a different spot.
Like Yvonne said keep the new scute material clean and dry. Using Nolvasan would be a great idea, it's good stuff.

Danny

 

[ogredawg19]

Sorry Yvonne, but please don't push on the new scute material (the part that looks like cottage cheese). It's very delicate at this stage and you could push it off the bone very easily. Also if that material gives it means that the bone underneath isn't completely formed.
By all means though you can push on any of the smooth scute material to see if there still is some shell rot going on in a different spot.
Like Yvonne said keep the new scute material clean and dry. Using Nolvasan would be a great idea, it's good stuff.

Danny

Thanks everyone!!! What a relief, for now at least. I will carefully recheck again later if there's any soft spot.

I do have couple more questions

Where do I get Nolvasan? I went to Target pharmacy (I know, I should look somewhere else) and they said that I need prescription for that. Is this true or I was in the wrong place?

Next is, I wanna know why does he not come out when the lights are on? his tank stays above 80 degrees during day time because my room stays hot. The only light I'm using right now for him is a a ZOO MED REPTI GLO 10.0 I'm not sure if this is too much light for him and I should go to 5.0. I got a 10.0 uvb bulb because I know he's moving to a bigger home real soon. right now he's in a 10g dimension QT Enclosure for easier cleanup. His future home is a 50g rubbermaid tub.

Again thanks again everyone, you guys are very helpful!

 

[Yvonne G]

Sorry Yvonne, but please don't push on the new scute material (the part that looks like cottage cheese). It's very delicate at this stage and you could push it off the bone very easily.
Danny

Well, I didn't mean for them to take a hammer and chisel to it, naturally you would want to prod very gently! But its good that you've made that distinction for anyone who reads our posts.

Yvonne

 

[Yvonne G]

Where do I get Nolvasan?

I used to buy it at Longs Pharmacy, then I've found it at the feed store (where they sell horse and cattle feed), and lastly, you can ask your vet to get you a bottle. Its probably cheaper at the feed store, though. Here's a link I found where they want $27 for the same bottle I paid $17.95 for at my feed store:

http://www.doversaddlery.com/product.asp?splid=0608RRC&pn=X1-22057&bhcd2=1217182245

Yvonne

 

[ogredawg19]

Where do I get Nolvasan?

I used to buy it at Longs Pharmacy, then I've found it at the feed store (where they sell horse and cattle feed), and lastly, you can ask your vet to get you a bottle. Its probably cheaper at the feed store, though. Here's a link I found where they want $27 for the same bottle I paid $17.95 for at my feed store:

http://www.doversaddlery.com/product.asp?splid=0608RRC&pn=X1-22057&bhcd2=1217182245

Yvonne

We have a feed store nearby, I'm going to ask them if they have any of those stuff. So do I really need a prescription for me to get it from longs drugs?

 

[ogredawg19]

So do you guys think I stay with UVB 10.0 or go for 5.0? Epecially if I'm going to be going to a bigger enclosure soon.

 

[Yvonne G]

I haven't bought a bottle for about 3 months, and at that time I didn't need a prescription to buy it. However, I'm sure your vet will write you a 'script if you need one. The vet can even sell it to you. Just to see what would happen, I just went online and pretended to buy a bottle at that link I sent previously. They didn't say I needed a prescription.

Yvonne

 

[ogredawg19]

Thanks for that Yvonne.

By the way an update..I was trying to see if any parts of the shell were soft and found that that this one particular part wasn't as hard as everything else. It's not really soft, but it doesn't feel very solid also. Is that something I have to watch out for and keep treating with betadine? or should I just move on to Nolvasan