Baby Greek is being lazy

[JadePotterton]

Hello,

My baby Greek Spur Thighed is being incredibly lazy! All she wants to do is sleep and hide whether it in her vivarium or in the living room running around she will find a spot (usually underneath me to be awkward) and hide.

She has lovely bright eyes and eats when she is awake and isn't too occupied in whatever world she lives in but then she goes straight back to being asleep again.

She is in a vivarium but I have taken out the glass so its pretty much like a table, she is on a substrate of top soil (which I spray to keep moist) and Aspen, her basking lamp is at 90f roughly and is based on a thermostat temperature, I bath her daily...... what else can I do

HELP!!!!

 

[SarahChelonoidis]

Don't have her out in the living room - the floor is likely too cold (other dangers aside). Cold tortoises are 'lazy'. Maybe a picture of her enclosure will help - I am having a hard time picturing a vivarium with the glass removed... What's left over then?

 

[JadePotterton]

Oh I did not realise, I thought having her out would help as she could explore and have a run around but I will stop doing that!!! Here is a photo

Thank you

 

[JoesMum]

Your tort isn't being lazy.

Tortoises hide away because they're afraid or because the temperature is wring and they're too hot or too cold. Young tortoises sleep a lot in any case.

Please start by reading the following:
Beginner Mistakes http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
Greek Tortoise Care Sheet http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/greek-tortoise-testudo-graeca-care-sheet-overview.87146/

Photographs of your tort's enclosure and the lighting will help us to spot any problems with that.

You need 95F under the basking lamp. A thermostat is used only with a Ceramic Heat Emitter, not the basking lamp. You get the temperature correct under the lamp by raising or lowering it, checking it at tortoise height with a digital thermometry (preferably the gun type - they're inexpensive from Amazon).

there are 4 important temperatures: Directly under the basking lamp, warm side, cool side and overnight minimum. It is important that you know these.

You shouldn't allow a tortoise to roam around a room. There is the risk it will get trodden on and also the risk that it will eat something it shouldn't With the nbest will in the world, you cannot watch it constantly. Tortoises don't always apply the intelligence they're born with to eating - I have watched mine try to print red circles printed on a newspaper.

There is no substitute for having a good size enclosure with lots of plants to help it feel safe while it is moving around.

 

[JoesMum]

And as if by magic, youposted a picture while I typed my response

What type of bulb do you have in that lamp? Is it a Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB)?

 

[JadePotterton]

Hello,

I think the fact that I've put lazy is giving the impression I think that my tortoise is stupid, I know she is not, I should have put acting lethargic or something along those lines but I didn't think... I know she isn't an idiot and is only reacting to something I'm probably doing wrong

The bulb is below, its what I was advised to get, sorry but I do not know the technical name for it.

I will definitely stop putting her in the living room, its only ever for half hour whilst I am watching her and then when I leave the room she goes back away for the day but I will stop doing it!!! Only time I will take her out now is in the summer when it is hot enough for her to go in the garden for the day

Thank you

 

[JoesMum]

The bulb is just right - if you look in the description, it says it's a Mercury vapour D3 basking lamp. That's great. It is nown as an MVB and it gives both UVB and Basking Heat in one bulb. You will need to replace t roughly every 12 months as it loses effectiveness after that time (It sounds like a lot, but the tube UVB only lasts 6 months!)

To be honest, tortoises aren't that intelligent in the problem-solving sense. We've had ours for over 40 years and he's definitely not a brain-box

If you need to give the enclosure a good clean out, then use it as an opportunity to give your tort a good soak or pop it in a plastic box, so you know where he is while you do it.

If you can get a temperature gun type thermometer like this, this will help you measure the temperature accurately under the lamp.

 

[JadePotterton]

Great! At least I'm doing something right

She shocks me how clever she is, she understands the concept of height and not walking off edges, she sticks her little head out as much as she can to have a look how high she is and then turns right around (which is more to say than my Breaded Dragon, he is a dope) lol but other than that she isn't the brightest brainbox either

I give her a soak everyday but she never is content with sitting in there and begins a one man mission to escape after about 10 mins

Do you think she is just acting lethargic because of the temperature then? maybe it is too high or too low?

 

[JoesMum]

Great! At least I'm doing something right

She shocks me how clever she is, she understands the concept of height and not walking off edges, she sticks her little head out as much as she can to have a look how high she is and then turns right around (which is more to say than my Breaded Dragon, he is a dope) lol but other than that she isn't the brightest brainbox either

I woudn't trust Joe with that... he seems fearless!

I give her a soak everyday but she never is content with sitting in there and begins a one man mission to escape after about 10 mins

- Do the soak first thing in the morning before she has warmed up properly. (Doing it when the tort is fully warmed up is usually a disaster!)
- Use a deep bowl that she can't see through and have the water warm, not hot. experiment with the temperature - if the water is too cold, the tort will want out too.
- Feed straight after the soak. Joe always seems starving after he's soaked.

Do you think she is just acting lethargic because of the temperature then? maybe it is too high or too low?

You have to remember that you have a very young tort and sleeping is common is young animals of any type.
On top of that, torts don't roam around for the sake of it. they roam when they want to find something to eat or to mate with.
If you have edible plants in the enclosure (sink the pot into the substrate so you can change it out easily) then your tort will browse when it feels like it.
It could well be that temperatures are wrong. Until you measure them accurately, you will have no idea. Lethargy is most commonly caused by this.

 

[JadePotterton]

Perfect thank you!!!! You have been a great help!

 

[Gillian M]

Welcome to the forum!

Do not worry. Tortoises take long, quite long to get used to a new environment, a new enclosure, a new owner, a new climate and the rest. Here, the owner has to e extremely PATIENT.

And what a cute little tort you have. GOD bless.

 

[Linhdan Nguyen]

In your picture. The glass is taken out correct? So thats an open space?
If it is, it could be the heat is escaping through the big open area and your baby is too cold.

 

[JadePotterton]

Another question....

Do I need a thermostat? The bulb I have isn't working correctly with it so I'm thinking of just getting rid of the thermostat all together and having just the Mercury bulb, keeping an eye on the temperature with a gun and obviously moving the light dependant on the temperature.

 

[Sara G.]

You're using the thermostat with a CHE bulb right?
I wouldn't get rid of the thermostat at all. I would just get another bulb. If you're having problems with you baby not eating/moving much then it sounds like a temp problem (as in too cold) and removing a bulb won't do any good.
Besides that would be absurdly inconvenient for you to be constantly (and I do mean constantly) checking the temps in the tank.
Out of curiosity why did you remove the front glass panel?
It doesn't seem safe to me at all.
Your tort might seem smart and understand that there's a drop off but I'm betting that can/will change very easily.
Plus you're losing so much humidity and heat without having the front glass on.

 

[Sara G.]

And even still, you'd need a heat source for night time and heat mats aren't good ideas so CHEs (ceramic heat emitters) are usually recommended as they produce no light but plenty of heat.

 

[JadePotterton]

I have a ministat 100 which was advised by the pet shop but that shouldn't even be used with bulbs

Sounds like I'm going to have to buy a complete new heating system, can anyone recommend a brand of thermostat and bulb which I can use together?

I removed the glass panels because I thought they should be kept it open tanks like a tortoise table and there is a high lip at the bottom so she cannot get out the tank even if she tried

 

[JoesMum]

To successfully light and heat a tank by day you need:

1. UVB
2. A basking lamp

This is best done by purchasing a Mercury Vapor Bulb which does both jobs. You do not use a thermostat with it; this is because basking heat must be constantly available by day. Temperature is regulated under it by raising or lowering the fitting and if your tort gets too hot it moves to a cooler part of the enclosure. Control the hours the bulb is on with a standard hardware store timer.

You need to raise humidity levels. To do this, put the glass panel back on the front of the enclosure and partially cover the top. How much you cover the top depends on the temperature inside the enclosure - check this with the thermometer/temperature gun.

At night, depending on the temperature in your home, you may need additional heat. To provide this use a Ceramic Heat Emitter with a thermostat. The one you have will do the job.

 

[JadePotterton]

Thank

To successfully light and heat a tank by day you need:

1. UVB
2. A basking lamp

This is best done by purchasing a Mercury Vapor Bulb which does both jobs. You do not use a thermostat with it; this is because basking heat must be constantly available by day. Temperature is regulated under it by raising or lowering the fitting and if your tort gets too hot it moves to a cooler part of the enclosure. Control the hours the bulb is on with a standard hardware store timer.

You need to raise humidity levels. To do this, put the glass panel back on the front of the enclosure and partially cover the top. How much you cover the top depends on the temperature inside the enclosure - check this with the thermometer/temperature gun.

At night, depending on the temperature in your home, you may need additional heat. To provide this use a Ceramic Heat Emitter with a thermostat. The one you have will do the job.

Thank you so much

I have removed the thermostat and have the bulb just simply plugged into the mains, do I have to check the temperature all the time or will it emit a single temperature all day that I can just keep my eye on?

I've put the glass back in too

Feel like an idiot but the pet shop I originally got the gear from clearly had no brains

 

[JoesMum]

Thank


Thank you so much

I have removed the thermostat and have the bulb just simply plugged into the mains, do I have to check the temperature all the time or will it emit a single temperature all day that I can just keep my eye on?

I've put the glass back in too

Feel like an idiot but the pet shop I originally got the gear from clearly had no brains

Pet shops are there to sell. Few have expertise in every species for which they sell stuff.

Just keep an eye on the temperatures. Once you have it right, little adjustment should be needed.

 

[Lyn W]

MVBs do not come straight back on when they are switched off and then take a little while to warm up, so may not reach the temp your tort needs. I use a thermostat with my che for night heat or extra heat on cold days and it switches on and off when the set temp is reached or if it gets too cold.
If you hang the mvb rather than use the clamp you can adjust the temp by raising or lowering it. Use a temp gun to check which height you need.