Back leg's question

[Paranub]

Hi guys/ gals.
Can someone please take a look at George and how he walks. I've noticed that when he's outside, he tends to prefer to... be lazy and not really raise himself off the floor. he's not a dragging of his back legs as he does use them to move forwards.
While hes inside, he's constantly climbing, and often stood on his back legs at the wall, he feels very strong and poweful for such a little guy.
on the carpet. he does seem to raise off the floor more.

Maybe i'm just being paranoid of all the MBD you read about?
he's kept on top soil, has constant access to water, UVB and a heat lamp. Things to climb, dig and hide in, we also use a multi vit / calcium supplement a few times a week. fed on a variety of weeds and dark leafy salad. He's 3 yrs old and weighs 140grams.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hm-m. . . looks ok to me. Russians don't really raise themselves up as tall as, say, redfoots. But wait for other opinions. I may be wrong.

 

[JoesMum]

I had a look, but it looks OK to me too.

 

[Tom]

Where are you? Does he get outside for real sunshine?

What type of UV bulb are you using and how high is it mounted?

What size enclosure is he in?

 

[Paranub]

Where are you? Does he get outside for real sunshine?

What type of UV bulb are you using and how high is it mounted?

What size enclosure is he in?

In the uk, and he gets out a few times a week in the hotter months. March to august usually.
his uv lamp is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/3716...id=229508&lgeo=1&item=371651328998&rmvSB=true
this one. and mounted around 8-9 inch above the soil. his enclosure is 4ft by 3 ft

Thanks for looking joesmum and yvonne G

 

[Tom]

In the uk, and he gets out a few times a week in the hotter months. March to august usually.
his uv lamp is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/3716...id=229508&lgeo=1&item=371651328998&rmvSB=true
this one. and mounted around 8-9 inch above the soil. his enclosure is 4ft by 3 ft

Thanks for looking joesmum and yvonne G

Thank you for a thorough answer.

We don't have that type of UV lamp over here, so I have no experience with it. My other arcadia bulbs make great UV though. Have you ever put a meter under that bulb? I have no idea what they put out, but I have to mount my 12% Arcadia HO tubes at least 18-20" over the tortoises, or the UV is much too strong. Without a UV meter, we are just guessing about how much UV your tortoise is receiving, but knowing what I know of the brand, I'm comfortable eliminating lack of UV as an issue. If he's eating weeds and dark leafy greens plus a calcium supplement a couple times a week, I think we can eliminate that too.

3x4' is smaller than what I would like, but its not terrible. When people keep them in little 40 gallon tanks it can cause terrible muscle atrophy as they aren't able to walk and exercise enough, so I think we can eliminate that possibility for you as well.

Sometimes constipation will make them have trouble with their back legs. How often do you soak him? For how long? Does he poop regularly in the soak water, or in his enclosure?

 

[Paranub]

Thank you for a thorough answer.

We don't have that type of UV lamp over here, so I have no experience with it. My other arcadia bulbs make great UV though. Have you ever put a meter under that bulb? I have no idea what they put out, but I have to mount my 12% Arcadia HO tubes at least 18-20" over the tortoises, or the UV is much too strong. Without a UV meter, we are just guessing about how much UV your tortoise is receiving, but knowing what I know of the brand, I'm comfortable eliminating lack of UV as an issue. If he's eating weeds and dark leafy greens plus a calcium supplement a couple times a week, I think we can eliminate that too.

3x4' is smaller than what I would like, but its not terrible. When people keep them in little 40 gallon tanks it can cause terrible muscle atrophy as they aren't able to walk and exercise enough, so I think we can eliminate that possibility for you as well.

Sometimes constipation will make them have trouble with their back legs. How often do you soak him? For how long? Does he poop regularly in the soak water, or in his enclosure?

We are upgrading his enclosure as he grows, he was 5 week old when we got him at 22grams. Now as a 3 yr old and 130 grams we can see he'll need a bigger space soon. he roams around and climbs all day long. He poops / wees and urates daily in his enclosure or bath. Bath time is usually 2-3 times a week or whenever he sits in his poo...ranging from 5 minutes to 20 minutes, depending on how moody he is and wants OUT!

the uv lamp instructions suggests mounting the lamp 30cm above where the reptile basks for best UV coverage. i didnt think they could get too much UV?
Should we consider reducing the UV lamp hours?

 

[Tom]

We are upgrading his enclosure as he grows, he was 5 week old when we got him at 22grams. Now as a 3 yr old and 130 grams we can see he'll need a bigger space soon. he roams around and climbs all day long. He poops / wees and urates daily in his enclosure or bath. Bath time is usually 2-3 times a week or whenever he sits in his poo...ranging from 5 minutes to 20 minutes, depending on how moody he is and wants OUT!

the uv lamp instructions suggests mounting the lamp 30cm above where the reptile basks for best UV coverage. i didnt think they could get too much UV?
Should we consider reducing the UV lamp hours?

If you are soaking 2-3 times a week and seeing poop regularly, we can also eliminate constipation. This eliminates all the "normal" or most common causes of them walking funny. So either he is fine and you are worrying over nothing, or he has some other problem. An x-ray would confirm or deny any bone issues, like an old broken bone for example, or a few other possible internal problems. If you really think something is not right, that would be my next step. Get an x-ray.

They can absolutely have too much UV. Just like you staying out in the sun too long, but imagine if your artificial sun were 3-4 times stronger. It can cause major skin damage and it can also burn their eyes or blind them. Without putting a UV meter under your bulb in your enclosure, there is no way to know how much UV that bulb is making or how high it should be mounted. Anyone who says other wise is guessing.

 

[Paranub]

If you are soaking 2-3 times a week and seeing poop regularly, we can also eliminate constipation. This eliminates all the "normal" or most common causes of them walking funny. So either he is fine and you are worrying over nothing, or he has some other problem. An x-ray would confirm or deny any bone issues, like an old broken bone for example, or a few other possible internal problems. If you really think something is not right, that would be my next step. Get an x-ray.

They can absolutely have too much UV. Just like you staying out in the sun too long, but imagine if your artificial sun were 3-4 times stronger. It can cause major skin damage and it can also burn their eyes or blind them. Without putting a UV meter under your bulb in your enclosure, there is no way to know how much UV that bulb is making or how high it should be mounted. Anyone who says other wise is guessing.

Thank you, I'll get the uv checked asap. Its been this high for 3 years, hope its not been too close to cause any damage to his eyes or skin! I think I'm just over analysing how he walks. How much uv on a reader should he be getting from the bulb?

 

[Tom]

Thank you, I'll get the uv checked asap. Its been this high for 3 years, hope its not been too close to cause any damage to his eyes or skin! I think I'm just over analysing how he walks. How much uv on a reader should he be getting from the bulb?

If this bulb is on all day long, I would want a UV index reading around 3-4, and I'd make sure there were places where the tortoise could go to get out of the UV light. 2 would be enough. 5-6+ would be too high for all day exposure in my opinion.

 

[Yvonne G]

I would worry about that bulb as it's a "compact" type.

 

[Paranub]

If this bulb is on all day long, I would want a UV index reading around 3-4, and I'd make sure there were places where the tortoise could go to get out of the UV light. 2 would be enough. 5-6+ would be too high for all day exposure in my opinion.

Thanks. I'll have a look for some uv reader type things to get a measure.

 

[Paranub]

I would worry about that bulb as it's a "compact" type.

Are they bad? Why would you worry?

 

[Tom]

I would worry about that bulb as it's a "compact" type.

This one is different than any of the ones we have here. I don't know if the usual info applies to this one.

 

[Tom]

Thanks. I'll have a look for some uv reader type things to get a measure.

My aging computer can't seem to open their website to give you a link, but you want the Solarmeter 6.5.

 

[Paranub]

This one is different than any of the ones we have here. I don't know if the usual info applies to this one.

Oh ok. Well on the box, it gives a hight scale showing the uvb rating at various distances away from the reptile. A 2 rating is shown at 30 cm away.

 

[Tom]

Oh ok. Well on the box, it gives a hight scale showing the uvb rating at various distances away from the reptile. A 2 rating is shown at 30 cm away.

That is nothing but a general guess and speculation. We've seen here on the forum that the same bulb from the same company (Arcadia), will give very different UV readings with the same UV meter in different enclosures. I was getting UV reading of 6-7 and another member was getting a reading of 3-4 at the same mounting height with our 46" 12% HO tubes.

 

[Paranub]

That is nothing but a general guess and speculation. We've seen here on the forum that the same bulb from the same company (Arcadia), will give very different UV readings with the same UV meter in different enclosures. I was getting UV reading of 6-7 and another member was getting a reading of 3-4 at the same mounting height with our 46" 12% HO tubes.

Yeah I figured it was a ball park figure, I'll see if I can get hold of a proper meter and mount the light at the right hight. Thanks for all the advice.