big old cherryhead.

[Anyfoot]

Hi everyone.

This is a cherryhead. Its carapace is 13" long. The thickness of her shell is unbelievable.
This is 1 of 10 redfoots that my friend is trying to get me to take off her when I have everything built and ready. She's willing to wait for me even if it takes 12 months or more for me to have the correct enclosure. We'll see. She has 2 cherries and 8 northerns, 1 of which is going on 15" and looks gorgeous. I have photos of 4 of the others, if anyone wants to see i can post. Anyway i wanted to know if you think this is a wc or cb. She has 3 deformed scutes. Owner had it 12yrs now and she doesn't know how old she is. The owner says she was a good size when she got it. Is there any way at all to take an educated guess at her age. Also she doesnt have any back toenails and never has as far as the owner is aware.
Also the anal scutes have a really wide angle like a male but the tail is so small its obvious its a female.(i think)

Thoughts please

Thank you

Craig

 

[tortadise]

Awesome. Brazilians that size areo southern Brazil locality. @cdmay has some very large Brazilians too. I say go for it. Not too commonly found.

 

[mike taylor]

There's no way we can tell you an age . But she is beautiful . There's also no way I can say if she was wild caught .

 

[Anyfoot]

Awesome. Brazilians that size areo southern Brazil locality. @cdmay has some very large Brazilians too. I say go for it. Not too commonly found.

Thanks Kelly.

Was going to ask your advise on what to take off this lady when I get the enclosure built, which will take a while yet. She wants me to take 10 reds and 2 yellows. mmm its alot, we will see when I have it built.

 

[Anyfoot]

There's no way we can tell you an age . But she is beautiful . There's also no way I can say if she was wild caught .

So this mean for example you could have 2 torts at lets say 20 and 60yrs old and couldn't tell the difference if cared for the same.

 

[HLogic]

It appears she may have lived a great part of her recent life on concrete which would explain the lack of nails on the hindfeet and the rather diminished nails on the front.

 

[Anyfoot]

It appears she may have lived a great part of her recent life on concrete which would explain the lack of nails on the hindfeet and the rather diminished nails on the front.

The owner at the minute has her on cyprus mulch, She said her nails have been like that since she got her nearly 12yrs ago. Here are some photos of another she has.They all live together.

 

[FLINTUS]

I would say CB based on the thickness of the plastron, but it could be a very old wild caught.

 

[Anyfoot]

I would say CB based on the thickness of the plastron, but it could be a very old wild caught.

So is it common to find WC with scute defects.

Also I noticed all of this owners reds where white at the top of the scutes, All mine except my cherryhead are a redish colour. Is this just related to how they have been cared for.

 

[Anyfoot]

Note the different colour at the top of the scutes, 2nd photo is of when I collected 2 of mine, hence the box.

 

[FLINTUS]

So is it common to find WC with scute defects.

Also I noticed all of this owners reds where white at the top of the scutes, All mine except my cherryhead are a redish colour. Is this just related to how they have been cared for.

Depends, it is now believed to be most commonly a temperature thing during incubation.
Do you mean the white lines? They are growth lines, so fast growth.

 

[Anyfoot]

Depends, it is now believed to be most commonly a temperature thing during incubation.
Do you mean the white lines? They are growth lines, so fast growth.

No I meant at the top of there scutes there is a light coloured patch. I don't know the technical name if there is one for it. In the middle of every scute.
So the white lines around the base of the scute means rapid growth, The 2 in the box i have had for about 6 months now and there new growth lines are very dark not white. Is this good or bad.

 

[HLogic]

No I meant at the top of there scutes there is a light coloured patch. I don't know the technical name if there is one for it. In the middle of every scute.
So the white lines around the base of the scute means rapid growth, The 2 in the box i have had for about 6 months now and there new growth lines are very dark not white. Is this good or bad.

The central part of the scute is called the areola. They vary in RF's from whitish - yellow - reddish. It is usually a locale difference though sometimes genetic within a population.

 

[Anyfoot]

The central part of the scute is called the areola. They vary in RF's from whitish - yellow - reddish. It is usually a locale difference though sometimes genetic within a population.

Thank you.
What about white as oppose to black new growth line. What color would a wild redfoots growth lines be.

 

[tortadise]

Note the different colour at the top of the scutes, 2nd photo is of when I collected 2 of mine, hence the box. View attachment 118650 View attachment 118651

Now keep in kind these are not cherry heads and appear of northern clad. The first one looks quite large. Yes the white is indicative of new growth.

 

[Anyfoot]

Now keep in kind these are not cherry heads and appear of northern clad. The first one looks quite large. Yes the white is indicative of new growth.

Bit confused. I thought both photos, all 3 torts are of the northern clad. But they have different color areola. 1st one is 15" carapace length.

 

[mike taylor]

So this mean for example you could have 2 torts at lets say 20 and 60yrs old and couldn't tell the difference if cared for the same.

Thats what I'm saying . Without knowing hatch date or location you'll never know . Everything will just be a guessing game . Kelly can tell you where she is from but not a age or if it was wild at one time . By the looks I would say she was wild caught . The other two looks captive breed .

 

[Anyfoot]

I'm going to attempt to explain what I was thinking and trying to find out, I think Hlogic has answered my thoughts.

I own 6 northerns with an orangey color areola and 1 cherryhead with whitish color areola.
The 5 that the lady fetched to my house for me to look at all had whitish color areola. These were 3 northerns and 2 cherryheads.

Does this mean that all 3 cherryheads and the 3 northerns with whitish areola are from the same region of locality, and my 6 northerns are from a separate region of locality.

Is this a way if I wanted to, to keep a true blood line?

 

[mike taylor]

Lets ask @tortadise .

 

[cdmay]

It appears she may have lived a great part of her recent life on concrete which would explain the lack of nails on the hindfeet and the rather diminished nails on the front.

I tend to agree, at first glance. The rubbed off nails indicates some serious stress and rough surface. Having said that though, the plastron does NOT look as if she was kept on concrete. So her lack of nails may be congenital. I'm stumped (sorry, couldn't help it) on the actual cause. Hlogic may be correct.
The scute imperfection may be a result of the scute seams not expanding at that one growth point....This happened with one of my captive hatched animals a number of years ago. In my case the neonate was perfectly normal and the scutes all symmetrical, but after several months the growth seemed to freeze up along one of the seams and as the young tortoise grew, the carapace was pinched at that point.
I've seen wild caught imports with the same condition, although rarely.