Box turtle hatchling eye problems

[mhamilton0911]

Box turtle hatchling, approx 1.5". Came to me on Wednesday. Thought this eyes were funky right away but since it's my first turtle I wasn't sure. Next morning though, and lots of research I determined it has moss (from shipping) stuck in both eyes. I first flushed with rodi, gently with a dropper. One eye looks better one looks grimy. I bought turtle eye drops (received Saturday), sterile saline for flushing, but I'm concerned about lack of eating and activity. I'm assuming shipping stress but with both eyes being funky I'm worried it's a bigger problem.

Turtle has pooped once yesterday during warm soak. And I tried 2 different foods and he went for both last night after 2nd treatment.

Originally had 10g tank with coir/coconut chips/ peat moss, 5.0 Uvb t5 and ceramic heat bulb. But he's currently in a clear tub with moist paper towels. Bin is about 75-80f via heat mat.

Good eye after flushing

Bad eye


Tank and tub. Question here though, should I add light or will darkness be better?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Box turtle hatchling, approx 1.5". Came to me on Wednesday. Thought this eyes were funky right away but since it's my first turtle I wasn't sure. Next morning though, and lots of research I determined it has moss (from shipping) stuck in both eyes. I first flushed with rodi, gently with a dropper. One eye looks better one looks grimy. I bought turtle eye drops (received Saturday), sterile saline for flushing, but I'm concerned about lack of eating and activity. I'm assuming shipping stress but with both eyes being funky I'm worried it's a bigger problem.

Turtle has pooped once yesterday during warm soak. And I tried 2 different foods and he went for both last night after 2nd treatment.

Originally had 10g tank with coir/coconut chips/ peat moss, 5.0 Uvb t5 and ceramic heat bulb. But he's currently in a clear tub with moist paper towels. Bin is about 75-80f via heat mat.

Good eye after flushing
View attachment 386278
Bad eye
View attachment 386279

Tank and tub. Question here though, should I add light or will darkness be better?
View attachment 386280

I am tagging @mark1 @DoubleD1996! and @Yvonne G since I don't know box turtles. But with tortoises at least, they won't eat when they can't see properly.

 

[Ink]

Welcome to the forum. Cute turtle.

 

[DoubleD1996!]

Hi,

Well there a few things to consider. One is, when you first get in a new box turtle, or any reptile rather, they usually won't eat right away as moving from one place to another is quite stressful.

Not always the case. I've had animals eat right away , but for the most part they usually need time to settle into a new environment. With that being said, you need to keep it in the environment you plan on keeping it in(at least when the eye is in check).

Let it get used to it. Looks to be a little Florida? I like to raise my box turtles up in shallow water for the first year of life, but not completely necessary.

The tank should be fine for RAISING. You always want to strive for a large outdoor enclosure if possible. As your baby grows so does the environment.

Also, what have you offered? Movement is always the best option. So, try some worms, superworms, little beetles, isopods etc.

As regards to the eye, sounds like things are turning around.

best of luck,
Eddie

Hi

 

[mhamilton0911]

Hi,

Well there a few things to consider. One is, when you first get in a new box turtle, or any reptile rather, they usually won't eat right away as moving from one place to another is quite stressful.

Not always the case. I've had animals eat right away , but for the most part they usually need time to settle into a new environment. With that being said, you need to keep it in the environment you plan on keeping it in(at least when the eye is in check).

Let it get used to it. Looks to be a little Florida? I like to raise my box turtles up in shallow water for the first year of life, but not completely necessary.

The tank should be fine for RAISING. You always want to strive for a large outdoor enclosure if possible. As your baby grows so does the environment.

Also, what have you offered? Movement is always the best option. So, try some worms, superworms, little beetles, isopods etc.

As regards to the eye, sounds like things are turning around.

best of luck,
Eddie

Hi

Yes it's a Florida box turtle, and with him being my first turtle I didn't know what to expect. I've read countless hours and keep researching everything I can.

I've offered 2 types of commercial pellets, one formulated for "babies" is the only one it'll eat. Also tried the canned turtle food which I think he's sampled as well. Saw him poo several times.

Will try to locate live foods tomorrow.

 

[EppsDynasty]

@mhamilton0911 .....
This can be frustrating to see all this new info and hard to figure out where to start. Just take a couple deep breaths and go through it 1 thing at a time. You wouldn't expect to be a professional Mechanic in 1 day, Tortoise keeping is no different. It takes time no matter who you are, we all started right where you are now.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

How is your turtle now?

 

[mhamilton0911]

How is your turtle now?

Same, maybe worse?

So I'm doing twice daily warm soak with fungus/bacterial drops, using eye drops multiple times a day, yet the eyes, now both, are always dried closed. They'll finally open after 10-15 minutes soaking. The one eye that looked worse in the beginning looks better, not as scabby as before, but still has a lingering "spot" that's maybe a scab or lump? Yet both eyes will be shut until soaking. The eye drops alone do not open them.

Now I'm noticing that several toes on the front feet maybe missing? I can see nubs instead of nails.

He was in a tub with wet paper towels, but I felt he was too dry still even though it was so humid. So I switched the dirt for a base of river rocks and on one side I laid paper towels and added spangnum moss, (10g for now). Light is 5.0 uvb and on the right side is a ceramic heat element. Live foods are impossible to get in my area I had to order online, but currently feeding 2 types dry pellets mushed with water and then mixed with canned box turtle food. I ordered red wigglers and nightcrawler worms, black soldier fly larve and wax worms. Those should hopefully be here wed/Thursday. I do see him eat occasionally but on his own but usually it's after bathing and I set fresh prepared and place him near the food.

I don't know where I'm going so wrong? Did I just get an unhealthy turtle? Unfortunately I did order online, from a random on Morph Market, sight unseen other than photos, and I didn't see eye or toes in the pics, they were just top town shots showing several hatchlings.

Feeling pretty heartbroken and I'm hoping I can get things turned around for him.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Same, maybe worse?

So I'm doing twice daily warm soak with fungus/bacterial drops, using eye drops multiple times a day, yet the eyes, now both, are always dried closed. They'll finally open after 10-15 minutes soaking. The one eye that looked worse in the beginning looks better, not as scabby as before, but still has a lingering "spot" that's maybe a scab or lump? Yet both eyes will be shut until soaking. The eye drops alone do not open them.

Now I'm noticing that several toes on the front feet maybe missing? I can see nubs instead of nails.

He was in a tub with wet paper towels, but I felt he was too dry still even though it was so humid. So I switched the dirt for a base of river rocks and on one side I laid paper towels and added spangnum moss, (10g for now). Light is 5.0 uvb and on the right side is a ceramic heat element. Live foods are impossible to get in my area I had to order online, but currently feeding 2 types dry pellets mushed with water and then mixed with canned box turtle food. I ordered red wigglers and nightcrawler worms, black soldier fly larve and wax worms. Those should hopefully be here wed/Thursday. I do see him eat occasionally but on his own but usually it's after bathing and I set fresh prepared and place him near the food.

I don't know where I'm going so wrong? Did I just get an unhealthy turtle? Unfortunately I did order online, from a random on Morph Market, sight unseen other than photos, and I didn't see eye or toes in the pics, they were just top town shots showing several hatchlings.

Feeling pretty heartbroken and I'm hoping I can get things turned around for him.

Was there any injury before the nails fell off?

Maybe @turtlesteve can help you.

 

[mhamilton0911]

Not that I know of, I've only had him since the 22nd of last month. Out of the shipping box he has moss stuck in both eyes which is what bright me here.

Honestly he so small you I can't see the toes that well until I zoom in for a picture.

 

[Ink]

@Yvonne G

 

[zovick]

Not that I know of, I've only had him since the 22nd of last month. Out of the shipping box he has moss stuck in both eyes which is what bright me here.

Honestly he so small you I can't see the toes that well until I zoom in for a picture.

Sorry to say this, but it looks as though you may have been sold a sick turtle. The missing nails may well be a sign of Austwickia chelonae which is most often fatal and very difficult to treat.

If that one doesn't make it and you want to try again, I might suggest buying from someone posting on Fauna Classifieds or Kingsnake.com.

And if you do need to try again, you should probably do it with all new equipment rather than put a new turtle in the same enclosure, etc. which had been occupied/used by the sick animal.

Good luck.

 

[mhamilton0911]

Sorry to say this, but it looks as though you may have been sold a sick tortoise. The missing nails may well be a sign of Austwickia chelonae which is most often fatal and very difficult to treat.

If that one doesn't make it and you want to try again, I might suggest buying from someone posting on Fauna Classifieds or Kingsnake.com.

And if you do need to try again, you should probably do it with all new equipment rather than put a new tortoise in the same enclosure, etc. which had been occupied/used by the sick animal.

Good luck.

Well that's immensely scary. I have a Florida box turtle, but I'm reading that it'll infect them as well.

 

[turtlesteve]

It’s definitely very sick. We don’t see a lot of cases of Austwickia in turtles so I’m not 100% confident, but losing toenails is a common symptom.

Honestly if it were me I’d try to get injectable antibiotics as a last ditch effort to save it, but given how bad this turtle looks I’d give it a low probably of survival even with treatment.

For future knowledge:

- Your enclosure with the shallow water and wet moss looks appropriate for a hatchling box turtle. In the future I would suggest you go simple and have nothing more than 1/4” deep water with a hide or some plastic plants. It is easier to get them started eating pellets in a simple visual environment, and it’s also much easier to clean the water every couple days. Once they are eating and growing well you can start to decorate.

- Hatchlings of any turtle or tortoise typically grow fast. Any time you don’t see significant new growth in the first month it is a major red flag. You should be able to tell by about 3-4 weeks from hatch date if a baby is starting to grow. So when you buy one, ask the breeder when it hatched and then assess whether it has started to grow. For example this baby has zero growth. (New growth comes in smooth and isn’t textured like the original shell). This means whatever disease it has, it was infected basically right at birth or right after. If the seller told you it was already a month old, then you would know the day it arrived that it is a rescue case. If it was only a week old it would look normal, but you’d know within 2-3 weeks that something was wrong.

 

[mhamilton0911]

It’s definitely very sick. We don’t see a lot of cases of Austwickia in turtles so I’m not 100% confident, but losing toenails is a common symptom.

Honestly if it were me I’d try to get injectable antibiotics as a last ditch effort to save it, but given how bad this turtle looks I’d give it a low probably of survival even with treatment.

For future knowledge:

- Your enclosure with the shallow water and wet moss looks appropriate for a hatchling box turtle. In the future I would suggest you go simple and have nothing more than 1/4” deep water with a hide or some plastic plants. It is easier to get them started eating pellets in a simple visual environment, and it’s also much easier to clean the water every couple days. Once they are eating and growing well you can start to decorate.

- Hatchlings of any turtle or tortoise typically grow fast. Any time you don’t see significant new growth in the first month it is a major red flag. You should be able to tell by about 3-4 weeks from hatch date if a baby is starting to grow. So when you buy one, ask the breeder when it hatched and then assess whether it has started to grow. For example this baby has zero growth. (New growth comes in smooth and isn’t textured like the original shell). This means whatever disease it has, it was infected basically right at birth or right after. If the seller told you it was already a month old, then you would know the day it arrived that it is a rescue case. If it was only a week old it would look normal, but you’d know within 2-3 weeks that something was wrong.

Unfortunately this baby should be about 3 months old.

This is my first turtle. I've done mild research the last few years as a dream then decided to do it and really dug in the last few months reading everything I could to prepare.

I live in a small Idaho town, no reptile stores around and the only way was to order online. I keep saltwater tanks so I'm used to overnighted live foods, and I took a chance that is slowly turning into a nightmare.

Is there testing available? I have looked into local vets but none are reptile specific.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Unfortunately this baby should be about 3 months old.

This is my first turtle. I've done mild research the last few years as a dream then decided to do it and really dug in the last few months reading everything I could to prepare.

I live in a small Idaho town, no reptile stores around and the only way was to order online. I keep saltwater tanks so I'm used to overnighted live foods, and I took a chance that is slowly turning into a nightmare.

Is there testing available? I have looked into local vets but none are reptile specific.

This thread has the newest info:

Austwickia chelonae - New Information & What to do if you see it

OK guys. During the past year I have observed/treated tortoises with Austwickia and documented the results. I have also discussed this disease with several veterinarians at this point and it's time for a data dump. General information on the disease: 1. The "yellow bump" disease is caused...

tortoiseforum.org

turtlesteve in post #7:
"1. I am told by UF that it can be confirmed by PCR testing of a tissue sample from the bumps themselves. I do not know if it could be tested on cloacal swabs but I will ask.

2. I have not attempted follow up testing yet. My concern will be accuracy, other diseases like TINC can be present and not show up on tests. So essentially you can never 100% trust a negative result."

 

[ajtorts]

Unfortunately this baby should be about 3 months old.

This is my first turtle. I've done mild research the last few years as a dream then decided to do it and really dug in the last few months reading everything I could to prepare.

I live in a small Idaho town, no reptile stores around and the only way was to order online. I keep saltwater tanks so I'm used to overnighted live foods, and I took a chance that is slowly turning into a nightmare.

Is there testing available? I have looked into local vets but none are reptile specific.

I agree with the assessment of @zovick and @turtlesteve. With a turtle in this condition, you only have money and time to lose by treating it. I'd go to a vet, get on amoxicillin or ampicillin, medicate like @turtlesteve has done with Leopard tortoises. You may be able to save the animal if the microbe is susceptible to the antibiotic. You'll need to give it orally with a small syringe, potentially a tiny gavage, like you might to a small bird (Budgie Parakeet, for example). Once the turtle eats again, you can put the meds on the food.
Organ damage is a risk, as well as septicemia with Austwickiosis if it's the case.
I think using quaternary ammonia for deep cleaning like you find with Clorox or off brand sanitizing wipes will solve most bacterial clean up. Soap and water.
Don't mix bleach with any type of ammonia ever. It's poisonous.

 

[laura2good]

My heart is breaking for you and ur turtle my toes felt sore looking at the pics. I really wish yous all the best I was thinking about u not having access to a reptile vet and got thinking. What about an online video call with a reptile vet I’m not sure how pricey it would be tho. Im sure ppl like myself wouldn’t mind helping with that. Thinking of yous

 

[turtlesteve]

Unfortunately this baby should be about 3 months old.

This is my first turtle. I've done mild research the last few years as a dream then decided to do it and really dug in the last few months reading everything I could to prepare.

I live in a small Idaho town, no reptile stores around and the only way was to order online. I keep saltwater tanks so I'm used to overnighted live foods, and I took a chance that is slowly turning into a nightmare.

Is there testing available? I have looked into local vets but none are reptile specific.

Don’t let this incident discourage you. Sadly there are a lot of diseases out there and people getting sick hatchlings is a common occurrence. Some sellers aren’t aware they are doing it, and others are and just don’t care. Usually it takes long enough for the babies to die that they can skirt responsibility for it. There are also many resellers who buy wholesale from breeders, which is more risky simply because of how many animals they handle and how much exposure they have.

My suggestion is that you make sure you buy directly from the actual breeder, and then make sure you see photographs of the actual turtle you are buying that show it has grown since birth and the amount of growth is appropriate for the age. This will rule out the worst case scenarios where they’re basically infected with something since day 1.

 

[mhamilton0911]

Don’t let this incident discourage you. Sadly there are a lot of diseases out there and people getting sick hatchlings is a common occurrence. Some sellers aren’t aware they are doing it, and others are and just don’t care. Usually it takes long enough for the babies to die that they can skirt responsibility for it. There are also many resellers who buy wholesale from breeders, which is more risky simply because of how many animals they handle and how much exposure they have.

My suggestion is that you make sure you buy directly from the actual breeder, and then make sure you see photographs of the actual turtle you are buying that show it has grown since birth and the amount of growth is appropriate for the age. This will rule out the worst case scenarios where they’re basically infected with something since day 1.

I did find the breeder on Facebook and it appears they have quite the collection of turtles and tortoises and they all look very healthy. And looking back at the sale pictures my dude definitely still has his toes so that happened since I've had him, and I can't see the scabby area on his eye, so again this is a new revelation that happen during transport.

I have made an appt with my vet, and they might have an actual "exotic" vet there, at that's what they called him. Hopefully I can get some answers and meds for this little dude. Unfortunately the appt is next Monday, but I'm to call on Thursday and Friday to see if there happens to be any cancellations.