Box turtle hybrids?

[Mallowolf]

Hello everyone! My name is Sara. I'm 21 years old and i'm currently a college student who works part time at a pet store that deals with mostly snakes and lizards. I've always loved turtles and tortoises, but never had the chance to own one. Now I think i'm ready to take the plunge and get a box turtle.

I had my heart set on an eastern box turtle, but I've found out that they are illegal to keep in PA because they are native. I'm a bit bummed, but I would still like to get a box turtle regardless. While looking online, i've found some hybrids that caught my eye. They have 4 different box turtles mixed in with them (including the eastern box turtle). Would they be legal to keep in PA? Any information would be appreciated!

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm not familiar with PA's turtle regulations, but seems to me it would only apply to taking them from the wild. It might be ok to buy one from out of state. But check into it before you send $$.

 

[Mallowolf]

I just looked up online and it says "possession limit 0" for the eastern box turtle, I'm gonna assume that it means they aren't legal to keep regardless of where you get it.

I'm still wondering if hybrids would count then. Not too sure

 

[Eric Phillips]

I believe possession of wild caught is "0", however I believe you can get a permit for 1 bought with the proper paperwork from an out of state breeder. To be safe I would just get a non native Box Turtle, my suggestion would be a 3 Toed. I live in Ohio and the permit process is a bit of a process. You need to submit proper paperwork from the place or person you purchased the Eastern, you need to have proof of purchase, and you are unexpectedly visited by the Department of Natural Resources through out the year. I will say my ODNR agent is pretty good guy though. You don't need to report or a apply for a permit for 3 Toeds in Ohio, Im sure PA is the same. I would just give them a call just to be safe.

 

[Turtlepete]

Legality of hybrids has always been an "in-the-grey" area, with all of the animal kingdom. Legislation had to be revised to include hybrid tigers, lions, other wild cats and wolves in many states, when such things were created. Unless the law specifically states that it extends to hybrids, then hybrids are basically/sort of/kind of legal. Now, given that most all states of the eastern box turtle list it solely to protect it in the wild (and from collection), I see no reason that anything about hybrids would be written into the law. So, my interpretation is that you should be in the clear to own a hybrid. At the very least, you aren't going to get into any trouble for it.

 

[Mallowolf]

Thank you all for your help! It seems as though getting a permit is a bit extensive, so I won't be trying that. As for whether I get a 3 toed or a hybrid, I guess I'll decide that a little bit down the road (when the time to get one comes) as long as the hybrids are legal (which i don't see anything about them being illegal).

I really appreciate all of the help! I'm really glad I found this place!

 

[TortsNTurtles]

I would call to see if the hybrids are legal before getting one. I live in Pa and have 3 toed babies. I love them. You could look for a colorful 3 toed. They are beautiful !

 

[Loohan]

Even the not-so-colorful ones are beautiful:

 

[Mallowolf]

Thanks for the help everyone! I talked to my boss at work and he believes that hybrids are illegal to own in PA. He showed me on the game commission's website something about owning native species "in full or part" which I guess pertains to hybrids. Either way, I'm gonna go with the 3 toed box. They are really starting to grow on me! Plus that video was adorable!

 

[Loohan]

I have read that 3TBTs are the smallest of the boxies and the easiest to keep as pets, supposedly. Heres' my little male. The males have a bit more color.

 

[cmacusa3]

I have read that 3TBTs are the smallest of the boxies and the easiest to keep as pets, supposedly. Heres' my little male. The males have a bit more color.
View attachment 133900

This one doesn't look very old, how do you know its a male already?

 

[Eric Phillips]

Probably too early to determine sex but it sure is a cutie or a STUD

 

[Loohan]

Male soul, anyway. Either a male or a transvestort.
Do transvestorts exist? This wild 3TBT whom i call Herbie definitely does have a male soul, although "he" sure does look female:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/species-identification-question.109448/#post-1018783

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Somebody once told me my dog didn't look girlie. I'm still shaking my head over that one.

 

[Eric Phillips]

Herbie Bruce Caitlyn it is, lol! Just kidding.

 

[Carrie Routt]

I believe possession of wild caught is "0", however I believe you can get a permit for 1 bought with the proper paperwork from an out of state breeder. To be safe I would just get a non native Box Turtle, my suggestion would be a 3 Toed. I live in Ohio and the permit process is a bit of a process. You need to submit proper paperwork from the place or person you purchased the Eastern, you need to have proof of purchase, and you are unexpectedly visited by the Department of Natural Resources through out the year. I will say my ODNR agent is pretty good guy though. You don't need to report or a apply for a permit for 3 Toeds in Ohio, Im sure PA is the same. I would just give them a call just to be safe.

How do you know the regulations for each state? Where do you start looking for that info? I live in Texas

 

[jaizei]

How do you know the regulations for each state? Where do you start looking for that info? I live in Texas

Texas Parks & Wildlife. You should make a new thread if you have specific questions.

 

[Carrie Routt]

Oh, Sorry. Thank you.

 

[lisa127]

I live in Ohio. My boxie is an integrade but she is an integrade of 3 toed and gulf coast. I just stay away from easterns so I don't have to worry about permits.

 

[KAYA79]

Eastern Box Turtles are the only native box turtle species in PA, so any other species or subspecies of box turtles should be just fine. 3-toed, Gulf-Coast, and Florida box turtles are all sub-species with Easterns. The Ornate Box Turtle however, is actually a separate species from the Eastern Box Turtle rather than a sub-species. Owning an Ornate would distance yourself even further from any gray areas in the law.